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yesterday

We are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.

I've recently been entrenched in a discussion about unions and how horrible they are for society. A debate that is unmoderated, a debate where all the worst logical fallacies are employed. Well, I guess not all, but to give you the flavor of the idiocy; yes, Hitler has come up.

 

I guess it's not that bad, ad homs are the worst of the discussion. I lost my temper once, apologized and stayed away for a few days, but kept following. The ad homs continued from the conservatives, (they really have no debating skills), and whether the authors of the slams thought they were so subtle that no one would notice I do not know, but I do know that I have no respect for the ideas being promulgated. And I really have great distaste for people who think they're subtle and intelligent when in reality their slams are not very subtle, and their minds are incapable of holding a reasonable discussion.

 

But then again, being cranky and aggressive, I must say it has given me great pleasure recently to wade back in and tell them what I thought of all their jackass conservative ideas. I went as far as to say I'd love to see the conservatives in this country become extinct. Even as far as subliminally forwarding the thought that I'd be happy to help that happen in any way possible.

 

Sometimes telling someone they're a jackass, or to fuck off, does blow off a little steam without physically hurting someone.

 

And I really shouldn't put all conservatives in the same boat, though I think they all have that selfish thought pattern that makes me want to grab a pitchfork and a couple of torches. I know that there might be a conservative or two who may actually want to discuss a thought in an intelligent manner, they're just few and far between. 

 

I know that someone will say, why bother? It is fairly useless to converse with those that cannot comprehend reality. But, these are atheists. Besides all the debaters being atheists, the majority are liberal, which seems to be the norm for groups of atheists; most lean to the left. Most are a bit more compassionate than these yahoos.

 

I only waded back in because of the seeming weak responses by the progressives. They were intelligent responses, they were fact filled, they were thoughtful; and they were losing the debate because the screaming monkeys of the right brought out the guns and shut up the liberal dissenters.

 

The comment that drew me back into the conversation was a right leaning person who wrote, "those who have been taken over by ideology can no longer see the truth."

 

Okay, gloves coming off now, I hate that tactic. The ones entrenched in their ideology are always the first to claim someone else is having a problem.

 

My angry and not very intelligent response:

 

"I haven't seen the rich idolized this much in years. Unions compared with hitler, what the fuck? You guys are cracking me up. Why don't you go hang out with your idols? Kiss their ass, maybe they'll give you a crumb.

 

History shows you have lost this debate. Scream and yell, get your panties in a bind, don't care. Since Reagan we've seen wages drop, benefits drop; basically the Ayn Rand creed has fucked the nation. The Amercan dream no more. And look at the jackass teapartiers now in congress, hey where's the jobs bitches? You keep giving tax break after tax break to the rich and the middle class dwindles. Go ahead and talk about Marxism, I'll talk about what's happening here, which is easy to see for those of us not captured by dogma or ideology. For thirty years this anti-worker creed has been pushed on the american people. It's failed bitches, open up your eyes. You may be a lazy dick licking bitch, but mine work for a living, and we will get paid for it. You're offspring can live in the fucking garbage dumps, not mine.

 

Those promoting this free market crap just can't see what's happening. they deny the losses of jobs. They say Americans aren't worth what they are paid. 40 hour work weeks, no thanks. Minimum wage, no thanks. No union protection, kiss my ass."

 

I ranted for a while. Probably not constructive, but I was looking for the same enjoyment these people were having, and you know, it felt pretty good.

 

Every so often I think we need to rant at the ignorance that has been allowed to creep into our society. Every so often we need to show the muckrakers, these liars and thieves, that we will fight back.

 

Though I have blogged similar thoughts in the past, I still think it needs to be said over and over, fight back. There comes a time when it is right to pick a fight.

 

It is hard for me to believe sometimes that there are people who hate their fellow man so much they'd shoot themselves in the foot to make sure you don't succeed. What is it driving this insanity, the dusty dregs of religion?

 

Take my hand, lets make a stand.

 

Also posted at The Cranky Atheist.

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Comment by Neal on August 25, 2011 at 1:59pm

I had friends that went to that convention to protest. They stayed at the same hotel the republicans were hanging out. Jon Stewart's people were interviewing patrons, they thought it was great that my liberal friends were there, (friends has bumper stickers they were sneakily planting everywhere, loved the pictures they sent). =)

Comment by Adriana on August 25, 2011 at 1:14pm

I agree with Neal, being on the streets is necessary. When the Republican convention came to NYC we went with my whole family to protest. The city streets were full of people protesting GWB. It was a great feeling! Everyone should do it!

Comment by Adriana on August 25, 2011 at 1:12pm

First off, I'll take your hand, but as a precaution, I'll take both of your hands; otherwise you may whack me with your free hand if we end up having a disagreement :-)) (just messin' with ya).

 

Your response was neither unintelligent nor overly angry (it sure was colorful, LOLZ). I agree: sometimes anger is justified and a couple of swear words go a long time. I do disagree with you that the ones with thoughtful responses are "losing" the debate to the conservative rants or to people who shout louder. Debates are not won by those who shout louder. Usually the first person to raise their voice loses the debate. But I also agree it is important not to be shouted out. It sure is. And I fully endorse fighting back. I'm trying to do that anyway I can. We have not lost this fight. But we must win it with fights. Let's use the scientific method and evidence-based reasoning: the "trickle-down" strategy has NEVER worked. More handouts to the super-rich will not work; it has been proven that it is a failed strategy.

Comment by Neal on August 25, 2011 at 9:06am

I do participate in the democratic process, you will find me on the streets. I have fond memories of being at a protest when Cheney visited Lansing. They had us across a four lane highway from the restaurant, (that I've never patronized since), that he was visiting. Motorcycle cops moved in when he arrived, parking about every ten feet in front of the protest. I remember when Cheney finally showed that I did get aggravated enough to start walking across the street while yelling obscenities at Dick. Police didn't think I was too amusing, but at least I didn't end up in jail.

 

Every so often I get excited. =)

 

Thinking of inviting all these people involved in the conversation to join us, see how well they fare in a moderated debate. Right leaning atheists are hard for me to understand, (though I think most involved in the conversation were lefty bastards). =)

Comment by Sydni Moser on August 25, 2011 at 8:17am

What I've observed particularly on Fox is that repubs just YELL louder and over any counter voice.  Being polite and well mannered doesn't do it. It's GOOD that you opened your mouth and slammed back, no other way to get a word in.  Appreciated what you said as well.

 

And I agree that we should be demonstrating all over the country our resistance to the religious minority taking over.  SOMEONE has to start the ball rolling and no one is stepping up to take charge.  We either need to be led or become leaders! So Neal, are you ready or organize a rally?  You do have what it takes.

Comment by Neal on August 25, 2011 at 5:40am

Disheartening that more people aren't in the streets demanding that our government actually do something besides politicking.

Comment by Marianne on August 24, 2011 at 10:50pm

I'm so glad someone is angry and not walking on tiptoe and I will take your hand.

But,  I'm not american, so less informed than you are;  we're having presently lots and lots of problems in Canada and those are not only in politics.

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