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Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's blog post The Problem With Miracles
"I think we can accuse usage of the word, "miracle" with laziness of thought.  The…"
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Grinning Cat commented on Loren Miller's blog post The Problem With Miracles
"Hey! Miracles like water into wine do happen, at least if you can trust photographic…"
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Grinning Cat commented on Loren Miller's blog post The Problem With Miracles
"... Much as those of my ilk may joke about problems caused by "FM" (as in F***ING MAGIC!)…"
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Stephen Brodie commented on Loren Miller's blog post The Problem With Miracles
"The term miracle is thrown about nowadays like confetti. I was thinking of someone and lo and…"
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Grinning Cat commented on Loren Miller's blog post The Problem With Miracles
""I would tolerate the existence of miracles ... if miracles are ... effects with well-hidden…"
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Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's blog post The Problem With Miracles
"Thank you, Terry.As an retired engineer and troubleshooter, I had to be grounded in reality. …"
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Terence Meaden commented on Loren Miller's blog post The Problem With Miracles
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Loren Miller commented on Terence Meaden's blog post On Miracles
"Done and done, Terry.  Have a look here."
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The Problem With Miracles

“You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action,…See More
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Terence Meaden commented on Terence Meaden's blog post On Miracles
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Ominous Scale of Environmental Erosion

In these articles 17 experts summarize 150 studies.…See More
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Mrs.B commented on A Former Member's group Animal | Vegetable | Mineral | Fungus
"And nicely combed hair too."
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We are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.

I’ve been researching the “Historical Jesus“. His existence really doesn’t motivate me one way or the other, its not like finding out there was a man named Jesus is going to convince me he was God, but it’s a story that is culturally relevant to our story. I personally believe Jesus was a Myth, it just makes since to me, the theory that he was a composite of some kind, really adds up.

But I wanted to know exactly how the professional historians come up with the “Historical Jesus.” and in my research I’ve discovered something slightly disturbing to me. I hope I’m wrong, but it seems like they use a very unscientific Method to make these conclusions.

They start with the premise that the New Testament is a historical document mixed with mythology. Then they strip away the things that don’t compute with known science like the Virgin Birth, Resurrection and various Miracles and Jesus being God. Then they overlay the gospels and whatever matches they keep and the stuff that contradicts they throw away. They are left with a mutilated skeleton of the New Testament. To fill in the gaps they created, they pull from Archaeology and Sociology ( and other methods of collecting historic data) plausible Ideas to make it fit. Then they present it to the world as Fact and dogmatically discredit any one who is skeptical of it.

The Method would be fine, in my opinion, for creating realistic historically based fiction, like the movie Troy or Author, but it doesn’t hold up to the scientific method. It seems that its still in a hypothesis stage and yet they act like its as true as Evolution is true. Sounds like another religion to me. Do they do this with other historical records? If so, how can I trust what I read in any history book?

I could do the same thing with any book. Harry Potter is a historic figure, he just never flew on broom stick and waved a wand. He was just a boy caught up in a struggle with a psychotic lunatic who killed his parents.

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Comment was by Mark Strange on June 22, 2012 at 2:16pm

@ Michel I'm not really sure, history unfortunately isn't my strong point. It would make for an excellent strategy as far as quest for world power as the roman empire had. The Roman Empire was defiantly power hungry, and had the perfect opportunity to do so. Its not a conspiracy theory that's far out there. If you have complete dictatorship over a great many nations, and of course complete control over the media to spread your own propaganda, its not hard to manipulate the people. Look at bullshit Kim Jong Il had his people believing: He had Supernatural Birth. He Invented the Hamburger and so on. 

I can't tell you its true but it would certainly make for an interesting HBO TV Series, if only.

Comment was by Michel on June 21, 2012 at 10:07pm

First time I saw Osama's face on the news I thought "Hey, here's Jesus!"

@Mark - Were the Romans known to use such tactics in other areas?

Comment was by Mark Strange on June 21, 2012 at 9:05pm

Has anyone heard of Joseph Atwell? He claims: "That Jesus was the invention of the Roman Imperial Court. Their purpose: to offer a vision of a “peaceful Messiah” who would serve as an alternative to the revolutionary leaders who were rocking first-century Israel and threatening Rome." quote taken from http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/

Comment was by Davy on June 21, 2012 at 2:14pm

BTW. From my reading of the holey bibble Jesus belong to the house of David and they did not cut their beards at all. 

Comment was by Davy on June 21, 2012 at 2:08pm

A historian who is worth his salt will use as many documents from many different sources that cite directly or cites evidence that is indirect but it also helps to explain what is occurring within a historical period. That is it gives direct evidence of those historical events events that the direct evidence purports to portray. They have to build a picture of the society their subject lived in. This helps to sort out the wheat from the chaff! 

Any genealogist on this site? They will understand what I am trying to say. 

I have done some research in tracing my own family history and when you really go through looking for a particular person you do not just use one source for this person but other sources to really pin down that person to a particular period, where they lived, how they earned their crust, what they did for hobbies or sport, whether they had criminal record or served on a jury or in the military etc. 

I learnt do not rely on just one source of information even for birth, death or marriage. You have to go into information that seems irrelevant to family history. Nor can you rely solely on family myths, some have some truth in them while others are pure fantasy.

Like one side of my family on my mother's who were named Boone, Same as the American frontiersman Daniel Boone. They always told people that they were related to him by descent but when descendants of Mary Wade really did the research they found out that they were not descendants of Daniel Boone. 

BTW. Mary Wade was my great, great, great, great, great Grandmother. 

Comment was by Doone on June 21, 2012 at 2:05pm

Jun. 21, 2012

It came from ex Roman Xtians wanting Jesus to look like themselves - they had long hair and a beard.  

vacation travel photos - Ovre Ardal, Norway

Comment was by Adriana on June 21, 2012 at 2:03pm

Interesting find, Michel. So where does the Jesus with the long, long hair in "modern" Jesus imagery come from? I checked Wikipedia, which says the long hair comes from the 6th century depictions of Jesus

Comment was by Michel on June 21, 2012 at 1:59pm

THE BIBLICAL BEARD

by Avram Yehoshua

The Bible tells us that a man should have a full, untrimmed beard, while trimming the hair on the head to an acceptable length. Much of this centers on the verse in Lev. 19:27 which should be translated:

'You must not shave or cut the corners of the hairs of your head and you are not to trim (mar or clip off) the edge (corners) of your beard.'
Ezek. 44:20: 'And their heads they must not shave and long hair they must not grow. They must trim their heads.'
 
In many place the Old Testament is very particular about beards, and shaving it was not a good idea. So the historical Jesus might have looked more like this:
Comment was by Adriana on June 21, 2012 at 1:13pm

But Corinthians is AFTER the fact. Jesus (if he existed) was a Jew. How does the Torah say a man should wear his hair?

Comment was by Michel on June 21, 2012 at 1:04pm

Found a biblical reference to how God wanted men to wear their hair:

In I Corinthians 11:14 God discusses the hair style of men, and in verse 15 He speaks about the length of the ladies' hair. "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."

So there should have been meters of this stuff lying around.

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