Nice Comment

Comment was by Loren Miller on January 23, 2021 at 7:53am

To find yourself, think for yourself.
-- Socrates

Succinct and apt, I think! [grin!]

Comment was by Joan Denoo on January 22, 2021 at 5:09pm

Loren, the Clive Barker quote states the reality of our current superstitions as well as the ancient ones. I like the way he expresses his insight, straight forward, clear, honest, accurate. I borrow just a snippet of it: 

"I think that God is creation of men, by men, and for men. What has happened over the many centuries now, the better part of two thousand in fact, is that that God has been slowly and steadily accruing power. His church has been accruing power, and the men who run that church, and they are all men, are not about to give it up. If they give it up, they give up luxury, they give up comfort."
-- Clive Barker

Comment was by Joan Denoo on January 22, 2021 at 4:41pm

@Onyango, I found the whole quote:

"The great men, who in France prepared men’s minds for the coming revolution, were themselves extreme revolutionists. They recognized no external authority of any kind whatever. Religion, natural science, society, political institutions – everything was subjected to the most unsparing criticism: everything must justify its existence before the judgment-seat of reason or give up existence. Reason became the sole measure of everything. It was the time when, as Hegel says, the world stood upon its head [1]; first in the sense that the human head, and the principles arrived at by its thought, claimed to be the basis of all human action and association; but by and by, also, in the wider sense that the reality which was in contradiction to these principles had, in fact, to be turned upside down. Every form of society and government then existing, every old traditional notion, was flung into the lumber-room as irrational; the world had hitherto allowed itself to be led solely by prejudices; everything in the past deserved only pity and contempt. Now, for the first time, appeared the light of day, the kingdom of reason; henceforth superstition, injustice, privilege, oppression, were to be superseded by eternal truth, eternal Right, equality based on Nature and the inalienable rights of man."

~ Frederick Engels, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. Chapter I [The Development of Utopian Socialism]. Second paragraph. 

Comment was by Mrs.B on January 22, 2021 at 1:36pm

Yes.

Comment was by Loren Miller on January 22, 2021 at 7:56am

It's been suggested that if the super-naturalists really had the powers they claim, they'd win the lottery every week. I prefer to point out that they could also win a Nobel Prize for discovering fundamental physical forces hitherto unknown to science. Either way, why are they wasting their talents doing party turns on television?

By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
-- Richard Dawkins

Seconded wholeheartedly, Dr. Dawkins!

Comment was by Loren Miller on January 21, 2021 at 11:34am

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-- Carl Sagan

Well put, Carl...

Comment was by Mrs.B on January 20, 2021 at 2:09pm

Looks spot on to me.

Comment was by Onyango Makagutu on January 20, 2021 at 8:52am

Why, I agree with Barker too

Comment was by Loren Miller on January 20, 2021 at 7:23am

I think that God that we have created and allowed to shape our culture through, essentially Christian theology is a pretty villainous creature. I think that one of the things that male patriarchal figure has done is, allowed under it's, his church, his wing, all kinds of corruptions and villainies to grow and fester. In the name of that God terrible wars have been waged, in the name of that God terrible sexism has been allowed to spread. There are children being born all across this world that don't have enough food to eat because that God, at least his church, tells the mothers and fathers that they must procreate at all costs, and to prevent procreation with a condom is in contravention with his laws. Now, I don't believe that God exists. I think that God is creation of men, by men, and for men. What has happened over the many centuries now, the better part of two thousand in fact, is that that God has been slowly and steadily accruing power. His church has been accruing power, and the men who run that church, and they are all men, are not about to give it up. If they give it up, they give up luxury, they give up comfort.
-- Clive Barker

A singular, observant, and powerful expression given here by Mr. Barker, and one with which I entirely agree.

Comment was by Stephen Brodie on January 20, 2021 at 7:22am

Onyango a stone is a stone that's reason enough.

Joan, I think Engels was talking about people's ideas having to justify its existence through reason. I can't imagine he meant anything else, that would be unreasonable lol. I've tried to find the root of the quote but no joy.

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