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Joan Denoo commented on Hope's group Imagine No Organized Religion or at least a Religion without Scump
"Stephen, perhaps this will help: "Tyburn Convent, 8 Hyde Park Place, Shrine of the…"
17 minutes ago
Stephen commented on Loren Miller's blog post Too High A Price
"A smart fella that Hitchens."
19 minutes ago
Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's blog post Too High A Price
"I could put the following under the Quote of the Day, but after Stephen's and Joan's…"
29 minutes ago
Stephen commented on Loren Miller's blog post Too High A Price
"Give women complete power over their reproductive rights and equal control over the family's…"
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Stephen replied to Ruth Anthony-Gardner's discussion Protect the US Post Office in the group Political Visions.
"I'm pretty sure it's not postal voting that Scump is against Per se but postal voting…"
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Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's blog post Too High A Price
"I did some interviews and literature reviews on women and religion and after a trip around the…"
53 minutes ago
Stephen replied to Davy's discussion Your political Compass in the group Political Visions.
"Shows you how much of a lefty I am I even bulked at taking the test. Lol"
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Grinning Cat replied to Ruth Anthony-Gardner's discussion Protect the US Post Office in the group Political Visions.
"There's also this "heartening" news: "Mail sorting equipment is being removed…"
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Grinning Cat commented on Hope's group Imagine No Organized Religion or at least a Religion without Scump
"Oh, yeah, from that Christian math textbook's homework: "God created people to…"
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Stephen replied to Ruth Anthony-Gardner's discussion Protect the US Post Office in the group Political Visions.
"Yes, Ruth. Just been reading about it. For the past 3½ years, America has been to look like…"
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Grinning Cat replied to Davy's discussion Your political Compass in the group Political Visions.
"Working link: https://www.politicalcompass.org/ This looked like an expanded version of the…"
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Political Visions.

Welcome to Political Visions. The aim of this group is to learn about other peoples political…See More
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Mrs.B commented on Hope's group Imagine No Organized Religion or at least a Religion without Scump
"I really like that one!"
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Mrs.B commented on Doone's group Humans of Earth and an Imbecile Named Scump News
"Yeah, we know...it's always about him."
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Mrs.B commented on Doone's group Humans of Earth and an Imbecile Named Scump News
"Never seen it perfect yet!"
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Ruth Anthony-Gardner replied to Ruth Anthony-Gardner's discussion Protect the US Post Office in the group Political Visions.
"If you're not up to speed, try Trump’s postmaster general caught making cash off of post…"
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Ruth Anthony-Gardner added a discussion to the group Political Visions.
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Protect the US Post Office

I assume you're aware of the deliberate slowdown of US Post Office services by Trump's loyalist…See More
2 hours ago
Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's blog post Too High A Price
"Problem: "the emergence of Trump also came the 'basket of deplorables'." (Loren…"
2 hours ago
Mrs.B commented on Loren Miller's group Quote Of The Day
"All good."
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Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's blog post Too High A Price
"Ruth, I like your comment about the fear of losing white supremacy outweighs the fears of a…"
3 hours ago

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Yet another piece I wrote a LONG time ago, but considering the current attacks on a woman's right to control her own body, I think the relevance of the following still maintains.  Let me know what you think.

==================

Tentatively stipulated:

  • Life is precious, none may be taken capriciously.
  • There are three possible outcomes of a pregnancy:
    1. Birth
    2. Abortion, due to human intervention
    3. Abortion, due to god's intervention (also stipulating an omniscient, omnipotent god; there are no accidents!)

Fact: In 1951, between my birth and the birth of my first sister, my mother had a miscarriage. The cause of the miscarriage, at the time, was unknown. My parents are by no means fatalists, but a comment about "god's will" would not have been unexpected. Had a doctor 20 years later looked at my parents' medical workups, he would have looked at this incident and shook his head. Why? My father was blood-type A-positive; my mother is O-negative. What had happened was a case of Rh mismatch, which has caused uncounted miscarriages throughout history. Sometime after this event, some researcher discovered an anti-agent to this syndrome, now known as “RhoGAM,” and since that time, a lot of mothers haven't had to go through the agony of a failed pregnancy.

So what about all those kids who didn't make it through the nine-month sub-lease because no one knew about RhoGAM? Sinners before their birth? Punishment to the parents for some other arcane sin? If so, what about all those who benefited from RhoGAM? Did god decide all of a sudden to reprieve them or was Man able to trump God's Ace (that one doesn't sound likely for an omnipotent god!)? And how many other pregnancies have failed throughout history, long before antiseptic abortion was available, because god decided they wouldn't go to term? The count would make the total number of abortions in the history of man, antiseptic and otherwise, look like a comparison between the Pacific and a glass of water. What kind of god capriciously disposes of life in this manner? No god I could worship!

The fact is, all of those failed pregnancies had reasons: failure to implant, Rh mismatch, hormonal imbalances, a million other reasons, some of which man is learning to control to the point of potentially eliminating failed pregnancies altogether. I have little doubt that we could potentially live to see the day when prenatal medicine develops to the point of being able to frustrate any agent which would prevent a pregnancy from running a full 40 weeks to successful delivery. Are those children spared god's wrath, or are they damned because of man's intervention? The plain fact of the matter is that there are those who bridle against god's taking of an unborn child for no discernible reason than "his will," then turn around and scream bloody murder when man does the same thing. Which is the greater sin? I have no answer for that one; I just do as I grok.

All I can see right now is people complaining about killing god's pre-born creations when he himself has wasted a vastly greater number with no more explanation than "His Will Be Done." Is each failed pregnancy a reflection of god's will or random chance? For myself, I cannot subscribe to a belief system which would have god so deeply involved at the pre-born level and simultaneously hold that man is a creature of free will. The concept is absurd to the point of being ludicrous. Does all of the above constitute an excuse or justification for abortion? Maybe, maybe not, but it DOES put the issue in a different perspective.

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Replies to This Discussion

Regardless of the cause, if you think what happens in, or to, life is all controlled by a god, then there's nothing that can trouble your mind. No reason to look further, no reason to experiment, it's all a bullshit plan. =)

Goddidit = Conversation stopper, learning stopper, curiosity stopper ... damned near LIFE stopper.

Not that long ago, I was listening to YouTube producer Steve Shives dismantle Cornelius Van Til's Defense of the Faith. It's a Calvinist, presuppositionalist piece which effectively says that god has it all figured out from Letter A, that a person only converts to belief in god because Yahweh himself said it had to be that way ... and here I am wondering, "If THAT's the case, why even bother writing the damned book, since it by itself will convince NO ONE unless the guy in the front office gives the okay?!?"

Off-topic a bit, granted, but DAMN!

All that suffering. All that heartache, all at the whim of a capricious unfeeling god. To hell with that. 

After I was born, mother continued on to have 9 miscarriages.

She hemorrhaged at my birth due to old scar tissue being opened from am old injury, which prevented further pregnancies from implanting because of new scar tissue.

.........and she's still mor(m)on.

And let's not forget, god meant her to have YOU ... and then nine miscarriages after that.  All part of the plan, you can look it up!

And if you believe that one, I got this real swell theme park in Florida I'd like to sell you...

Hahahaha.......I have a bridge to sell too.........

That explains why I was not loved, & mostly ignored unless I did something to displease the parents, then I got razor strapped big time.

Child abuse is terible and an ongoing problem. I'm sorry that happened to you. A guy I used to work around was sort of 'proud' that he whipped his grandchildren.

That guy was abusive. He threw a new employee out of a chair because it was his chair. He also became upset because I said "God Dam it." Complaining that I shouldn't use the Lowerds name in vain. I explained that using the 'lowerds' name in vain means to take credit for causing floods, earthquakes, solar equinox's and ectetera. To which he replied - You're technically correct and followed with a request that I not swear.

How long will it take until public opinion comes to the conclusion that religion is a form of insanity?

Chromosonal damage also causes fetal damage I think it diserve a different look for the world we live in and the poison produce and consequently injest.

We also hear how wonderful it is to be having a ''baby'' a minute & a half after becoming preggers.

a zygote isn't human and why the Plan B (Morning After Pill) should be available.

Plan A from the christian coalition and catholic church is of course abstanance. Another plan is condoms, there are also birth control pills, IUD's, tubal ligation and vacectamies. Perhaps the morning after pill should be called plan 'D, or E'  (E for Eliminate) instead. No one wants to have an abortion. That's one of the last resorts. Some of the Abrihamics think intercourse is a sin. They think being human is a sin.

The old joke that conservatives care more about fetus' than babies has some weight.

How many new borns  were killed (Infantacide) because they had birth defects, or simply because they were unwanted The Journal of Psychohistory discusses this subject. It would probably shock people to know how common this was historically. The following article is a good place to start on that subject. http://psychohistory.com/articles/the-childhood-origins-of-the-holo...

Within the body of text of the web site if you decide to look deep enough you will find additional information about infanticide, violence, and war.


I heard conservatives called the thing down there a womb - perpaps it has something to do with XXXXXX dentata.

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