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We are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.

Where do you stand on the probability of God's existence?

 

 

 

 


1.00: Strong theist. 100 percent possibility of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'



2.00: Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there



3.00: Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'



4.00: Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'



5.00: Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'



6.00: Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'



7:00: Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung 'knows' there is one.'

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Replies to This Discussion

I believe your saying that the lack of evidence makes so strong a case that one might as well say "Yeah, there's no God," and be satisfied in that conclusion. I too say that but I'm not dogmatic about it; I don't say it with absolute certainty, I frankly don't say anything with absolute certainty, because I think everything is subject to possible change.

I live my life as if he doesn't exist as one might have lived years ago knowing the earth was flat. Imagination waking up and learning your world is spherical or that the sun revolves around the earth- if something so fundamental as that could change, then so could this.

//I believe your saying that the lack of evidence makes so strong a case that one might as well say "Yeah, there's no God"//

Not quite so, it isn't just "lack of evidence".  It's more a matter of degree.  If someone tells me there is a water buffalo in my garage I will say I'm 99.99% sure there isn't one.  If someone tells me there are 10.000 water buffalos in my garage I will say I'm 100% sure they are not there.  The absolute absence of evidence, the utterly absurd nature of the idea, and the lack of need to invoke gods to justify any natural phenomena make it a 100% case in my view.  At some point we have to grow some testicles and say it how it is.

This is beautiful: The absolute absence of evidence, the utterly absurd nature of the idea, and the lack of need to invoke gods to justify any natural phenomena make it a 100% case in my view.  At some point we have to grow some testicles and say it how it is.

 

I agree 100%.  Very well written.  Thank you.  May I use this if I'm ever in a discussion about it?  It doesn't happen much.  Believers in my midst know better than to bring it up.  HAHA!  But I love this line and can't wait to use it. I'm not that articulate.  I have to plagerize (sp).  Can't spell either.  HAHA!  Thanks Eduardo!

I'm very honoured by what you say, thanks, and you can use the phrase.

I wonder what kind of "proof" would convince you.

It would have to happen in this material world of ours, since that's all that can be grasped, wouldn't it? How would you ("we") determine the divinity of the manifestation?

The same way we would prove anything else, If it exist it can be verified. If it exist we will find it eventually. Once you put attribute to a god or gods, those attributes can be proven true or false. I can say with the uttermost certainty the Christian God, the God with all the attributes laid out in the bible is not real or at least not as powerful as he says he is, because of the evidence shown. This doesn't mean there isn't another god out there, it just means not that one.

Still.

How would you tell it is "divine" and not an undiscovered natural phenomenon?

What would it take for you to decide it was a supernatural occurence?

I believe everything is natural. That means Ghost, Gods, Unicorns and Dragons, If these things exist or existed then we would find them and verify them with in natural means eventually.

Just because we don't understand them now doesn't mean you have to call them supernatural. Supernatural by definition is something you can't verify naturally and I do not believe that is possible. I could be wrong but that probability is so far out there that it might as well be the truth.

Saying I could be wrong and that you're open to  new evidence is never the same as saying I accept every claim as truth. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, even if the claim is true and you can't find the evidence to back it up you really can't present it as truth.

this discussion between you and michel is very interesting and thought provoking to my 6.9999 self.

 

//"Just because we don't understand them now doesn't mean you have to call them supernatural."//

 

i so agree, but, wonder, maybe for first time, if a bunch of top notch scientists did find 'something' that broke all laws of nature and physics, like some god appeared and did a buncha tricks,

 i too, would resist allowing them to label it as "supernatural", merely because there they could not measure it, or even understand it, etc etc.  so Michel asks a very great question i have never considered before, how would you or i, tell it is "divine"???

 

//"Supernatural by definition is something you can't verify naturally and I do not believe that is possible."//

then, to play devil's advocate (ha ha "theist's advocate") for the sake of further exploration of this idea-------- how could you, or i, ever say science could verify a divinity??? if you and i are trying to leave door open, yet, we will not allow science to verify a deity?  do you see what i am saying?

 

 

Your saying, I think, that If God is a supernatural being and he exist, then how can we prove that when we refuse to look for it, or believe such a thing could exist. If we ignore the possibility of the supernatural then we won't see it when the evidence is shown.

My answer to that would be that we discover things all the time that we are not looking for.

Once you are able to verify or study something that is supernatural it was never supernatural only out of the ordinary, but perfectly natural. A god doesn't have to be supernatural to be a god.

 

 

Oh, in my post above (no sense reposting it, it's right there,)

 

 i was just wondering what IS the evidence of a god you (or i) would accept?  Especially since you say you feel supernatural things can not be verified.....

 

//"A god doesn't have to be supernatural to be a god."//

see, this is a new concept to me.  I always do think gods are supernatural beings or "energies", etc etc.  I have never considered the notion gods are part of nature.....

 

 

 

then we are back to an earlier remark of Michels, how would we not just think it is part of nature, just a previously unknown force of nature?  How would you detect it's divinity if god is part of nature???

 

 

 

 

//"If we ignore the possibility of the supernatural then we won't see it when the evidence is shown"//

Playing theist's advocate (who ME??) for the sake of thought exploration, what evidence would you accept?  I am not sure i could answer that myself, but, i'd think it would have to be scientifically verified evidence. 

 I'd think god, if there was one, could manifest things science could measure, film, quantify, etc. 

"I have never considered the notion gods are part of nature."

To give you an example: To a Pantheist, from what I read, believes nature is God and God is nature, Nature is a living breathing organism that thinks and feels and we are all apart of this organism, and our purpose in life is too keep it alive so that we may also live. A very environmental religion.

"What evidence would you accept?"

I would need the same evidence to believe in God as I need to believe in you. I see your images, I can view your profile, I talk and discuss with you so it's pretty clear your a real person. So far I can't do those things with God, I can pray but that has always been a one sided conversation.


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