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"I remember that one Chris. Thank you for showing it to me again. Very interesting."

We are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.

Be it atheists or theists, many may feel human life may be purposeless or untenable; i.e. a never ending search or a "why" question that's perhaps not worth asking.

I think there's a viable alternative to especially the "purposeless" based outlook, with the introduction of a recent concept called "teleonomy", which is an atheistic/scientific way to describe nature in purpose driven language. (In fact, as seen on Wikipedia/teleonomy, Richard Dawkins; recently introduced the treatments “archeo” and “neo” purpose. See his video/speech "the purpose of purpose".)

Anyway, for example, using the laws of thermodynamics, we can try to objectively discover non-trivial goals that humans may undertake, as far as nature goes. (i.e. grand purposes for the human species, that reasonably transcend the desires of individual humans, while seeking to be objective, much like how Science tends to follow the evidence, aiming to describe what the cosmos actually is, rather than what people may want the cosmos to be.)

Note: One may reasonably grasp an understanding of the summaries below, without clicking on the associated wikipedia etc sources. One may however get an even more wholesome understanding, by toggling the links conveniently provided throughout the summaries.

Hypothesis A - An atheist PhD psychologist named Michael Price, hypothesizes that future humans are probably supposed to replicate universes [2017]: "Michael's variant of Cosmological Natural Selection I":

The original version of CNS I stems from a concept called Cosmological Natural Selection by physicist Lee Smolin.

  1. Cosmological Natural Selection, posits that our universe likely stemmed from a process that like evolution or biological natural selection, spun many universes; where the best universe instances emerge from universes that possess excellent replication abilities/properties, through the utilization of blackholes. Intelligent life is said to be an accidental by-product of this replication process
  2. Cosmological Natural Selection I (CNS I), additionally posits that intelligent life is a viable factor for replicating universes.
  3. Michael Price’s variant of CNS I, additionally posits that intelligent life is a likely core influence on the successful generation of replicating universes, where Michael surmises that human intelligence is the most “improbably complex” outcome of the cosmos thus far. Michael ranks modern humans to be a step in the direction towards future human intelligence, that will be able to create non-arbitrary universes. Thereafter, Michael expresses that the scientific purpose of humans is reasonably, ultimately to replicate universes like ours.

Hypothesis B - An atheist computer scientist named Jordan Bennett, hypothesizes that a grand human purpose is probably to create Artificial General Intelligence [2015]: "Why the purpose of the human species is probably to create artificial general intelligence?"

  1. In understanding Jordan's hypothesis, one may imagine entropy as a currency in an economy.
  2. Agents/organisms that get work done (access to activities) in nature, must pay up some entropy, you don't do work or have access to activities, without paying up some entropy.
  3. Highly Intelligent things (like humans) reasonably pay more entropy, compared to less intelligent things or non intelligent things, because humans do more work i.e. many cognitive tasks (thinking about science, doing scientific stuff) compared to lesser intelligences or non intelligent things.
  4. In a similar way, chimps may pay more entropy than say less intelligent things, because they do more work, or have access to more complicated activities. (More access to activities result from more access to stuff called "macrostates" in the OP's second hypothesis regarding Artificial General Intelligence.)
  5. Likewise, Artificial General Intelligence[AGI] or Artificial Super Intelligence[ASI] when built, will have access to more cognitive activities, and they'll get more work done than humans. So, they'll reasonably pay more entropy to the thermodynamic system that is nature.
  6. This means there is reasonably a pattern, nature is finding more and more ways to extract more and more entropy from activities done (i.e. entropy maximization), and nature reasonably does this by building smarter and smarter things. Humans thus likely won't be the last thing nature finds to derive entropy from work; there will likely be AGI or ASI or whatever smarter thing that follows humans. (Laws of physics permits smarter things than humans overall)

Crucially, Science can reasonably describe how organic life began (namely, via evolutionary principle etc) and also, reasonably where human life perhaps seeks to go (again, via evolutionary principle etc, as described in the hypotheses above.)


  1. An atheist PhD psychologist hypothesizes that future humans are probably supposed to replicate universes [2017]: "Cosmological Natural Selection, Cosmological Evolution and the Futu...".
  2. An atheist computer scientist hypothesizes that a grand human purpose is probably to create Artificial General Intelligence [2015]: "Why the purpose of the human species is probably to create artifici...?"
  3. Video summary:


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Chris' words:

"Artificial intellegence is nothing other than mathemeticians, scientists, and computer programers conceptualizing what they think they can put into a computer program based on the information available.   People who don't understand that are fools."

My response:

I am unable to detect any valuable point in your remark above. Care to expound?

Chris' words:

"Where do you do you want to go Blue Grey Brain?

I'm more than happy too travel with this.."

My response:

I don't think I have traveled beyond the scope of hypotheses seen in the OP. The one regarding artificial general intelligence is perhaps the most reasonable hypothesis regarding human purpose thus far.

Lutz' words:

"entropy maximization is total equilibrium otherwise known as death. or on the cosmic scale the heat death of the universe. 

as far as 'scientific purpose' that in itself makes no sense. science investigates. it does not intend any result to have any predetermined purpose. that is teleological. not science.

the beauty of an indifferent universe and a meaningless life except as life in and of itself however defined leaves as such interpretations open. as open as the universe. if there was meaning it would be a closed system doomed to entropy.

as for replicating a universe: for what? perfection? that too is a dead end. if not, just for fun but where is the energy coming from in the first place? you need a universe's worth of energy for that. sounds dodgy.

as for creating 'artificial intelligence' that is an oxymoron. intelligence cannot be artificial. a calculating computational even quantum light drive field-wave-state computer will never be intelligent by our analogue standards. because of paradox in alogical system thinking. computers cannot do this. because all logical systems are closed system. and prone to decay. to corruption of codes. to entropy. loss of inherent energy. not only that closed systems are self isolation. good for little things. but useless in an open universe where bio-sentient-evolving-life, without an end, is continual re-creation. continual dynamics. constant evolving. endless revolution. computational machines are static calculating devices which are totally clueless as to any cognitive content of the data they are working with. a car may have horse power but it is not a horse."

My response:

  1. Entropy maximization is not total equilibrium. Crucially, the word "maximization" herein doesn't mean the maximum has already been attained. Things in the cosmos are reasonably maximizing entropy. Albeit, as stated in the hypothesis, yes, when entropy is finally maximized, the universe may come to an end, no life etc.
  2. Regarding teleology, you are commenting on ideas that I did not mention. [See Wikipedia/Strawman]
    • Crucially, it looks like you didn't know that:
      • Science concerns predictions. You may hear of scientists referring to predictive power in scientific models. This is quite common. This predictive nature of science does not imply the proposition of teleological predestined purpose. [See Wikipedia/Predictive power]
      • There is something called teleonomy, which contrasts teleology. Teleonomy consists of predictive tools, and it is an atheistic/scientific way to describe the cosmos in terms of purpose driven language. Teleonomy has contributions from militant atheists like Richard Dawkins, as underlined in the OP. It looks like you weren't aware of teleonomy before entering this discussion. Notably, religion does not have a monopoly on purpose.
  3. Regardless of your qualms with the label artificial intelligence, the basic idea is that humans are clumps of atoms or organic material that can generate general intelligence factor g, while human level ai-research seeks to generate similar measures of intelligence, in the form of inorganic material, or yet another clump of atoms.
    • In simpler words, we have clear evidence that materials in this universe (namely human flesh) can give rise to general intelligence. Scientists seek "simply" to replicate something like general intelligence, using again materials from the universe, only this time, inorganic material, namely artificial general intelligence.

Joey's words:

'One more addition, 

"This cannot be an easy life. We shall have a rugged time of it to keep our minds open and to keep them deep, to keep our sense of beauty and our ability to make it, and our occasional ability to see it in places remote and strange and unfamiliar; we shall have a rugged time of it, all of us in keeping these gardens in our villages, in keeping open the manifold, intricate, casual paths, to keep these flourishing in a great, open, windy world; but this, as I see it, is the condition of man; and in this condition we can help, because we can love, one another."  j. Robert Oppenheimer, Head of the Manhattan Project.'

My response:

Is there a point to your message above?

Joey's words:

"Richard Feynman has still not been disproved scientifically...All of Quantum Electrodynamics has been proved and scientifically been demonstrated over and over without exception. So what are you writing about, you want to go against the truth, you want to argue with will Loose.  Cause Nature will make you loose.  Nature always wins!!!! Joey"

My response:
What is your point?

In the past the suspicion of the Outlander was evolutionary but that excuse can't be used anymore. We must fight Xenophobia in all its forms both from our nationalist leaders and from within ourselves.

Eat shit and die of unhealthy water from Cholera.

That's sort of a joke - though I know it isn't funny.

Scientific purpose of the human species

There is none.

Why ask?

The phud  is nonsense.

Pet or CT's don't don't examine the brain the way you may "Think"

Funny that the post is artificially transcribed into terrible language.

Life is chaos, there is no purpose.


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