Comment

Comment by Neal on May 1, 2012 at 12:42pm

DG, is framing or priming insidious though? If I have a thought I'm trying to convey, would I not need to put it in terms that highlight the positive aspects of that thought?

If homosexual was not replaced with gay, would there still be a willingness from the general populace to extend rights and benefits that the heterosexual population enjoy? 

I guess what I'm thinking is that without framing or priming, how could we get someone who disagrees with a idea to consider the idea on its own merits. The religious community frames every damn discussion in a set of morals that most of us, if we looked at those morals critically and independently, would not fly. 

I can see no other way to gain attention from opposing ideologies unless terms are framed in a manner that grabs attention. Those who do a better job framing win the war.

Comment by Dallas the Phallus on May 1, 2012 at 12:00pm

Neal, I agree. When I see an old person get swindled out of their money, I can't help but wonder how a person that old can still be so credulous.

 

Also, to protect oneself against priming, framing, and manipulation is no easy task. It takes vigilence, and it is exhausting, I think. No one is immune. But skeptics at least are wary of what they hear--and should be--especially if it is what they WANT to hear or something they agree with. It's easy to dismiss and criticise that which we don't agree with. It's much more difficult to critique that which we DO agree with.

 

I don't think anyone would suggest that priming and framing turns people into automatons. But they do manipulate our thought processes, attitudes, and expectations.

 

Example:

 

[Here's the prime]: Not everything is black and white, but people do submit to a herd mentatlity, especially in places like Africa.

 

Now Neal, I would like to ask you to think of an animal. Any animal and tell me what it is.

 

If I primed you successfully, you may have immediately thought of a zebra. After all, I just said "black and white," "herd," and "Africa." If I were trying to manipulate your answer, that might have been one way to do it.

 

If I had primed you with: Not everyting is black and white. Solitary and independent people usually can't bear to think that way. This is increasingly common in China.

 

Now, think of an animal. What did you think of?

 

I think that this is all that is meant by priming and framing. We're all susceptible to this.

Comment by Neal on May 1, 2012 at 11:29am

@DG, I'm sure you're right. I would think that possibly age and experience effects susceptibility as well, but then again, there's a lot of old bastards that I know that will believe anything if it fits in with their worldview. 

Comment by Chris on May 1, 2012 at 2:42am

People don't realize how much information they are giving away on Facebook, google, and discount cards are be used to target them to buy things. Everyone has a week moment and will eventually submit and purchase something they may not really need. 

How companies Learn Your Secrets is about what companies track and how they use it to market to you.

Comment by Dallas the Phallus on April 30, 2012 at 11:22am

Am I missing something?

Yes, that Cracked.com is a humor site. : )  At least in part.

 

I don't think they're saying that group singing is a nefarious plot or a conspiracy. They're only saying that group activities like this tend to bond us togehter, but that tendancy CAN be exploited for propagandistic purposes, like in N. Korea.

 

A similar analogy: People who share being persecuted, abused, or mistreated by Person A will form a bond with one another. This is only human. But it is exploited by the military (Sarg is an ass to his company because it builds in-group moral between soldiers), and by politicians (Fox news makes out conservatives as the vicitms of liberal media and malfeasance, which puts them in an in-group mindset, shuts down critical thinking, etc.)

 

Also, you may not be as influenced by framing as other people, esp if you are a skeptic or a critical thinker. But you have to admit that a lot of people ARE influenced by it. We often see that how questions are framed can influence people's response to them:

 

Ex 1: Do you believe all Amerians, in spite of their orientation, should have access to equal rights and responsibilities as granted by the US Constitution?

Ex 2: Should homosexuals be granted new special rights never seen before in US history?

 

You may be able to see through it, but JimBo doesn't.

 

Lastly, some people do think their memory is infallible, which is a problem.

Comment by Neal on April 30, 2012 at 11:06am

I guess I'm the only one not jumping on the bandwagon. =(

Over at cracked, they set up situations to sound sinister or mind controlling, but I don't see it. 

#5. First you have to actually take pills for a living, second you'd have to associate a color to a function. If someone told me a pill would take away pain I wouldn't give a shit what color it is as long as it worked. Am I missing something? 

#4. My local store doesn't prime with flowers, but I have been in stores that do large displays. My favorite is Horrocks, where I buy grains and produce. Do I think that the stuff is fresh because of flowers? No. I examine and accept or reject items depending on quality.

The other priming examples might be fun in a controlled state, but random occurrences are probably few.

#3. Yes, our views are shaped by how an idea is framed. Nothing new here. I guess if you didn't understand that basic thought, (which means you haven't followed politics for the last couple of decades), it could effect a desired result. But take a firmly held thought that you have reasoned out for yourself. I detest the death penalty, frame it how you will, you're not changing my mind.

#2. Singing and bonding is not a nefarious plot, it's humans enjoying other humans, so what? As a musician, I enjoy when people sing along and a fellowship occurs. It's beautiful not a damn conspiracy.

#1. Cars and face. Again, yes. So what?

Brainwashing.

#6. Again, so what? If you agree with an idea, you'll agree with it whether you chant it or not. If all your thoughts originate from what others think, then you're pretty much a lost fuck anyway.

#5. If you haven't figured this out after years of seeing papers like The Inquirer and other shock rags, you've been living in a vacuum. 

#4. Nothing more than a logical fallacy. It's like a lawyer telling the jury that everything a witness says is a lie, (though inappropriate and not allowed in an actual court). I watch Fox for a while everyday to see what they're talking about these days and try to figure out why and their point of view. 

Heading to the dentist but will continue. Even the book has a premise that is false. The 9/11 and where were you thought. I know exactly where I was and what I was doing. Knowing memory is not perfect and changes over time, I realize not every detail is perfect. I guess some people must not realize how memory works and for them this might be true. My memory of the incident has facts and fuzziness like every memory, so what? I know I was at work. I was in the break room right after the first tower was hit. I watched as the second one hit. There were more and more people entering the room as the ordeal continued. I remember a couple that I talked with, most I couldn't identify any more. I remember hardly any of the conversation, just feelings for the most part. i don't get the thought that anyone thinks memory is perfect I guess.

Should have been a discussion. =)

Comment by Chris on April 30, 2012 at 2:02am

I spent about an hour reading links related to the two you referenced. I forwarded information about using voter vs vote for get out the vote drives to a political organizer friend of mine and sent my son

 7 Reasons the 21st Century is Making You Miserable.

Comment by Dallas the Phallus on April 30, 2012 at 12:28am

I'm tellin' ya! Cracked.com is the best site out there. : )

Comment by Chris on April 30, 2012 at 12:07am

Interesting links on cracked. Thanks for posting them Dallas.

Comment by Marianne on April 29, 2012 at 11:28pm

The Invisible Gorilla goe son to my books to read; sounds fascinating...

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