Comment

Comment by Neal on May 1, 2012 at 7:54pm

Brights; not a very bright thought. =)

Comment by Adriana on May 1, 2012 at 1:42pm

@Neal, I always hated the term "bright"

Comment by Neal on May 1, 2012 at 1:41pm

The dupe, harm, etc. is in the eye of the beholder though, so might always be thought of as insidious to some.

Then there's those who make errors in the framing and get caught in their own web, like atheists calling themselves "brights," which I think was probably arrogant and thoughtless. 

Thanks for the discussion.

Comment by Dallas Gaytheist on May 1, 2012 at 1:06pm

IMO, framing can only be neutral. You can't ascribe insidiousness to it. The insidiousness comes from the intentions behind it, like when the intention is to dupe, harm, disenfranchise, etc. Same as logic cannot be good or bad (in essence), only the use to which it is put.

Comment by Neal on May 1, 2012 at 12:45pm

I should say win the debate. It is tiring to hear people say war, when war is a term that is almost synonymous with someone's death.

Comment by Neal on May 1, 2012 at 12:42pm

DG, is framing or priming insidious though? If I have a thought I'm trying to convey, would I not need to put it in terms that highlight the positive aspects of that thought?

If homosexual was not replaced with gay, would there still be a willingness from the general populace to extend rights and benefits that the heterosexual population enjoy? 

I guess what I'm thinking is that without framing or priming, how could we get someone who disagrees with a idea to consider the idea on its own merits. The religious community frames every damn discussion in a set of morals that most of us, if we looked at those morals critically and independently, would not fly. 

I can see no other way to gain attention from opposing ideologies unless terms are framed in a manner that grabs attention. Those who do a better job framing win the war.

Comment by Dallas Gaytheist on May 1, 2012 at 12:00pm

Neal, I agree. When I see an old person get swindled out of their money, I can't help but wonder how a person that old can still be so credulous.

 

Also, to protect oneself against priming, framing, and manipulation is no easy task. It takes vigilence, and it is exhausting, I think. No one is immune. But skeptics at least are wary of what they hear--and should be--especially if it is what they WANT to hear or something they agree with. It's easy to dismiss and criticise that which we don't agree with. It's much more difficult to critique that which we DO agree with.

 

I don't think anyone would suggest that priming and framing turns people into automatons. But they do manipulate our thought processes, attitudes, and expectations.

 

Example:

 

[Here's the prime]: Not everything is black and white, but people do submit to a herd mentatlity, especially in places like Africa.

 

Now Neal, I would like to ask you to think of an animal. Any animal and tell me what it is.

 

If I primed you successfully, you may have immediately thought of a zebra. After all, I just said "black and white," "herd," and "Africa." If I were trying to manipulate your answer, that might have been one way to do it.

 

If I had primed you with: Not everyting is black and white. Solitary and independent people usually can't bear to think that way. This is increasingly common in China.

 

Now, think of an animal. What did you think of?

 

I think that this is all that is meant by priming and framing. We're all susceptible to this.

Comment by Neal on May 1, 2012 at 11:29am

@DG, I'm sure you're right. I would think that possibly age and experience effects susceptibility as well, but then again, there's a lot of old bastards that I know that will believe anything if it fits in with their worldview. 

Comment by Chris on May 1, 2012 at 2:42am

People don't realize how much information they are giving away on Facebook, google, and discount cards are be used to target them to buy things. Everyone has a week moment and will eventually submit and purchase something they may not really need. 

How companies Learn Your Secrets is about what companies track and how they use it to market to you.

Comment by Dallas Gaytheist on April 30, 2012 at 11:22am

Am I missing something?

Yes, that Cracked.com is a humor site. : )  At least in part.

 

I don't think they're saying that group singing is a nefarious plot or a conspiracy. They're only saying that group activities like this tend to bond us togehter, but that tendancy CAN be exploited for propagandistic purposes, like in N. Korea.

 

A similar analogy: People who share being persecuted, abused, or mistreated by Person A will form a bond with one another. This is only human. But it is exploited by the military (Sarg is an ass to his company because it builds in-group moral between soldiers), and by politicians (Fox news makes out conservatives as the vicitms of liberal media and malfeasance, which puts them in an in-group mindset, shuts down critical thinking, etc.)

 

Also, you may not be as influenced by framing as other people, esp if you are a skeptic or a critical thinker. But you have to admit that a lot of people ARE influenced by it. We often see that how questions are framed can influence people's response to them:

 

Ex 1: Do you believe all Amerians, in spite of their orientation, should have access to equal rights and responsibilities as granted by the US Constitution?

Ex 2: Should homosexuals be granted new special rights never seen before in US history?

 

You may be able to see through it, but JimBo doesn't.

 

Lastly, some people do think their memory is infallible, which is a problem.

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