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Evolution Defenders

A group for Secularists, Agnostics, Atheists, etc... who believe we should keep the poison of creationism and Intelligent Design OUT of public school science classrooms.

Location: #science
Members: 62
Latest Activity: on Saturday

ID conspiracy proof... written by the proponents of ID themselves!!!

The Formerly-Secret "Wedge Document" written by the Intelligent Designers themselves. Proof that ID is creationism in disguise.
The Wedge Document.pdf
Also find this document at

This document was key evidence in the Dover, PA trial featured in "Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial."

Discussion Forum

Why Being Human Makes Evolution Hard to Understand

Started by Neal. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Oct 19, 2016. 5 Replies

Being human makes for foolishness.Cameron M. SmithVolume 37.6, November/December 2013Our difficulty accepting evolution isn’t just because some religions oppose it or that it is complicated—it isn’t.…Continue

Tags: to, understand, atheist, universe, hard

Homo erectus may have doodled on shellfish

Started by Davy. Last reply by doone Dec 6, 2014. 1 Reply

Early humans from Java used shells for tools and engraving long before Homo sapiens did, new research suggests.The findings, published today in the journal …Continue

Tags: University, National, Museum, of, Australia.

Evolution Notes and News

Started by doone. Last reply by archaeopteryx Jan 8, 2014. 74 Replies

Date of earliest animal life reset by 30 million years…Continue

Tags: News, and, Notes, Evolution

Promoting Evolution Through Cartoons.....

Started by Neo Jul 8, 2013. 0 Replies

I have been watching Cartoon Network lately. Mainly because adult TV has gotten really boring, but I also still love cartoons. One day I was watching this one show called "The World of Gumball" and…Continue

Comment Wall


You need to be a member of Evolution Defenders to add comments!

Comment by Chris on October 19, 2016 at 5:07pm

Here's a source of information that includes a map of paleo cave locations in Eurasia. There are better map sources than this one.  One of the interesting things about the links above is it contains maps of the inside of individual caves.

It's amazing that the ancients were able to navigate into the depths of some of these caves let alone see what they were painting.

Palaeolithic cave-art. Map of distribution

I've seen some interesting above ground palo art in the America's.

I may still have a guide book showing locations of caves along the West Coast of the U.S. that a friend gave me. That book is from the 1940's (?). I don't recall it deliniating where palo art was. I don't know how much of North Western American caves have been scientifically explored or documented. It's been a while since I was interested in it.

I've spelunked a number of times in the NW and MW U.S.. Never underwater (diving) though. Above the water level it's dangerous even with modern lighting. I always carried multiple flashlights and spare bulbs before LED's were available.  In a cave dark is as dark as it can be without artificial light.

I was told that if one is in a cave, or well deep enough where the daylight is blocked but a line of sight to the sky is available it's possible to look and  see the stars even in the daytime. I haven't experienced that though have been into various gold and silver mines.

Comment by Chris on October 19, 2016 at 4:17pm

A male donkey (Jack) and a female horse (Mare) and reproduce to 'breed' an infertile Mule.

I always heard mules were infertle. The above link with excerpts below includes the following which appears to refute what I've been told:

The mule is valued because, while it has the size and ground-covering ability of its dam, it is stronger than a horse of similar size and inherits the endurance and disposition of the donkey sire, tending to require less food than a horse of similar size. Mules also tend to be more independent than most domesticated equines other than the donkey.

The median weight range for a mule is between about 370 and 460 kg (820 and 1,000 lb). While a few mules can carry live weight up to 160 kg (353 lb), the superiority of the mule becomes apparent in their additional endurance.

In general, a mule can be packed with dead weight of up to 20% of its body weight, or approximately 90 kg (198 lb). Although it depends on the individual animal, it has been reported that mules trained by the Army of Pakistan can carry up to 72 kilograms (159 lb) and walk 26 kilometres (16.2 mi) without resting. The average equine in general can carry up to approximately 30% of its body weight in live weight, such as a rider.

A female mule that has estrus cycles and thus, in theory, could carry a fetus, is called a "molly" or "Molly mule," though the term is sometimes used to refer to female mules in general. Pregnancy is rare, but can occasionally occur naturally as well as through embryo transfer. A male mule is properly called a horse mule, though often called a john mule, which is the correct term for a gelded mule. A young male mule is called a mule colt, and a young female is called a mule filly."

I don't know much about horse or donkey breeding. An aquaitance of mine was a DVM (Doctor of Veterian Medicine) specializing in bovine breeding.

I don't know much about any of that. I lived a sheltered life. The town of Stanfield Oregon, which was just South of the town I lived had a law stating: It is against the law for animals to have sex in the city limits. The law was passed while I lived near by so it isn't a very old law.

The reason for the law is/was to prevent bestial voyeristic driving accidents. It must have been a problem, though Stanfield was rated as the biggest speed trap in the state. They were probably doing anything to raise tax revinue.

While looking up the stupid law in Stanfeld Oregon I happened upon the following which is also strange and unlikly enforced such as the law above was.

While working for the Navy a supervisor of mine was Guamanian. He and I got along well. He transfered to the base on Guam and became the Mayor.  Governor seems a more appropriate designation. I have other friends who live there as well.

Why move to Guam?

There are men in Guam whose full-time job it is to travel the countryside and deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for the first time. Why? Under the law in Guam, it is forbidden for virgins to marry.

As a retiree it sounds marginally better than working as a clerk at a hardware store.

Hopefully neither the Stanfield, or Guamanian laws are enforced, unless there is still a problem with voyer accidents in Stanfield.

Comment by Stephen on October 19, 2016 at 2:57pm

I wonder what was the reason for painting these animals. To climb into a dark dank cave just to paint a picture. I also wonder if they painted them before the hunt or after.

Comment by Mrs.B on October 19, 2016 at 2:33pm

Good pic.

Comment by doone on October 19, 2016 at 4:13am

Ice age cave art reveals mystery hybrid species that gave rise to modern European bison

Comment by Tom Sarbeck on October 19, 2016 at 3:52am

Chris, after reading of biology, not studying it in college, I understand natural selection has made a species when its members are unable to make offspring with members of the source species.

I suspect, that since natural selection is slow, it leaves multiple generations between the source specie(?) and the result specie.

Comment by Chris on October 18, 2016 at 11:04pm

I'm sure the different 'breeds' of giraffes can interbreed. Afrian and Indian Eliphants most likely can interbreed as well as different other species such as homosapiens and neanderthals. 

Does that mean that interbreeding is benificial?

With specicies becomming on the endangered list isn't it best to protect the disctinct cultures (DNA)?

Comment by Tom Sarbeck on October 17, 2016 at 3:37am

How much genetic difference would be sufficient to call them different human species?

What I've read says that's not relevant. Unlike species don't reproduce.

Comment by Chris on October 17, 2016 at 2:30am

I live with three felines.

They all look different and exhibit different 'personalities'

Great reference Stephen.

Do we have five human species here, based on genetic clustering? How much genetic difference would be sufficient to call them different human species? (These problems are all discussed in the Appendix of Speciation).

Curious if the author or point is if there are different species of humans.

Comment by doone on October 16, 2016 at 5:34pm

Spectacular rock art from the end of the last glacial discovered in northern Spain


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