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What is an atheists raw perspective on the Bible and God

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We are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.

What is wrong with these people? A former student of a christian school kills and fox viewers think it's either atheists, gun laws or Obama that caused the incident.

A tragic shooting at Oikos University in Oakland, California was given attention on the Fox News Facebook feed today, and the commenters were all too eager to roll out the lines typical of Fox’s seemingly overzealous fan base. So what did Fox subscribers put together when they heard there was a shooting at a “Christian college” and that the shooter was an “Asian male in his 40′s”?

As one would expect from the conservative line of thought, a large portion of the comments centered around gun laws and how the Obama administration and/or liberal California law somehow caused this tragedy. Another, though smaller percentage, expressed outrage and concern for the victims’ families.

   Practical Doubt

Views: 595

Replies to This Discussion

They are hard to communicate with - why was he at a Christian School?

Here is a list of the victims - all white obviosly

Hundreds of people turned out for a memorial service Tuesday night, while family members and friends remembered the six students and one employee who were killed when a gunman opened fire at Christian-based Oikos University in Oakland, Calif. on Monday.

Three other people were wounded.

(Daniel Sim/Associated Press) - This is an undated family photo provided by Daniel Sim showing himself with his sister Lydia Sim. Lydia, a 21-year-old student, was among the seven killed at the shooting at Oikos University April 2, 2012. Sim, of Hayward, was studying to be a nurse.

The Alameda County Coroners Bureau on Tuesday released the names of six of the seven victims. The name of the seventh victim was released by her father.

Family members have been speaking out about their loved ones, who ranged from 21 to 53 years old and came from Nigeria, Nepal and the Philippines, as well as the United States.


Katleen Ping, 24, identified as one of the victims by her father, was called the rock of her family.

The secretary/receptionist worked the front desk in the university’s administration department, where the gunman took her hostage then killed her.

She had been working at the school for about seven months to support her family and her 4-year-old son Kayzzer. She had moved from the Philippines to Oakland with her family in 2007.

Ping shared a home with her parents, brother and two younger sisters. Her husband lives in the Philippines and had been trying to get permission to move to the United States.

Her father, Liberty Ping, said he does not think his daughter knew the person who shot her.

“She’s with the Lord,” he said. “She’s in a better place right now.”


Lydia Sim, 21, of Hayward, was described as a happy person who always had a smile on her face.

She babysat children at Hayward Baptist Church while attending nursing classes at the university. Daniel Sim said his sister was drawn to the school because of its predominant Korean-American student body, as well as its faith-based teachings.

“She felt a lot more comfortable,” he said. “She was really outgoing and really independent.”

He said his sister loved children, and children loved being around her.

She was studying for her nursing degree, but her ultimate goal was to attend medical school and become a pediatrician. She had attended Ohlone College in Fremont before transferring to Oikos and was nearing graduation.

Sim lived at home in Hayward with her parents and brother.


Friends said Bhutia Tshering, 38, of San Francisco, was a gentle Buddhist from the Indian state of Sikkim near the Himalayan Mountains. He worked nights as a janitor at San Francisco International Airport and lived alone in the city’s North Beach neighborhood.

The Contra Costa Times reported he was killed when the gunman stole his car outside the university.

Prem Singh, his landlord at a residential hotel, said Bhutia attended nursing school classes at Oikos in the morning.


Sonam Choedon, 33, of El Cerrito, grew up in India as the child of Tibetan refugees. She worked in education administration for Tibet’s exiled government before moving to the San Francisco Bay area city of El Cerrito from Dharamsala, India, a year and a half ago.

“Her death is really shocking to our community,” said family spokesman Tenzin Tsedup, president of the Tibetan Association of Northern California, where Chodon was a member. “There are many horrific things happening in Tibet and now we have to face yet another tragedy in the U.S.”

Chodon had worked for five years in the Education of Central Tibetan Administration in India, Tsedup said.

“She was a humble and loving person,” he said. “She was a simple and very kind person.”

Chodon was one of many new Tibetan immigrants who enrolled at Oikos to earn nursing degrees, Tsedup said.


The coroner’s office also identified, Judith Seymore, 53 of San Jose, Kim Eunhea, 23, of Union City, and Doris Chibuko, 40, of San Leandro as victims of the shooting.

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Not sure.

One L. Goh, the 43-year-old suspect in yesterday’s mass shooting at Oikos University in Oakland, California told investigators that he had targeted administrators and students who had teased him while attending the school.

Seven people died and three more were wounded in the attack, making the incident one of the worst mass killings in California history. Goh, a former Oikos student and Korean national, was arrested Monday about an hour after his shooting rampage. After speaking with Goh, Oakland police chief Howard Jordan said that Goh felt isolated after being ridiculed and laughed at because of his imperfect English speaking skills.

Was Goh bullied so much that he simply cracked? Can adults be victimized by bullying just as easily as adolescents?

Of course adults can be bullied, too. But there are also a lot of mentally ill people who never get help or treatment. And the combination of that with the availability and culture of firearms is the perfect storm. 

They live in their own little make-believe world, don't they!

They do. And I'm glad someone is capturing those FB comments so everyone knows how fucked up that little make believe-world is. 

And they're always the victims, conservatives! No matter what happens, it's always about them. Always some liberal conspiracy to rob them of their money, guns, bibles, or freedom.

Well, for once I'm in agreement with conservatives. Of course gun laws play a role in this type of killings. Not just gun laws but the whole gun culture. It's easier to kill a lot of people in a very short time with a firearm, much easier than with a knife or a baseball bat. There are too many guns around. Having more people carry guns like the NRA and the whole gun lobby proposes is an idiotic, dangerous idea in my opinion, it's like going back to the Wild West of the movies. 

That many Fox viewers are a bunch of fringe loonies is no surprise to anyone. 

I do not agree with them. Their thoughts about gun control laws is that they don't want any control on guns. It's the gun controls laws that are bad, no laws would make everything better.

Well, it was tongue-in-cheek, I'm in agreement with gun laws playing a role, meaning not enough regulations. Conservatives, of course, would want less regulations so everyone walks around, goes to class, supermarket, work, etc., packing heat. 

This is ridiculous!

Countries where no one has guns but the criminals and the police never reach the TOP 5 of that Murders by Firearms list. And countries like yours, whether because it's stuck with retrograde laws or sheer lawlessness, never get to figure on this list: Perception of Safety - Walking in the Dark.

I guess happiness is not part of your values.

This latest shooting follows the pattern of many others in this country and elsewhere, too.  In short, an unbalanced, angry loner can too easily avail himself of the most efficient means to kill.  This country is awash in guns, and that's not going to change anytime soon, certainly not in the wake of the 2008 Supreme Court decision in DC vs. Heller.  In Heller, the Court recognized the Second Amendment "right of the people to keep and bear arms" for personal defense. Thus, the Court has affirmed that firearms ownership is (and was all along) an existing right in this country that "shall not be infringed." So that's a done deal.

A careful reading confirms that the Court was correct in its interpretation of the amendment's syntax as written. The language of the amendment refers to an existing right, a right that the amendment pledges to protect. That is, the amendment does not establish the right; the right exists. The reference to a "well-regulated militia" refers only to the framers' view of what then constituted the most prominent reason to preserve the right. But the right to keep and bear arms was not conditioned on the need to maintain a militia. In other words, the people's right to bear arms is expressly acknowledged in the latter portion of the amendment itself, and the amendment explicitly recognizes that existing right. That's what we have to contend with today--it's as if a curse had been imposed on us by the framers. The reference to militias is simply (in its syntax) a justification, not a condition. The framers could never have anticipated the weapons technology we're dealing with today, of course--and now we're stuck with the framers' language.

In Heller, the Court also recognized the rights of certain jurisdictions to circumscribe those 2nd A rights as may be deemed reasonable, just as other basic rights (speech, the press) are circumscribed. That's the only avenue left for those of us who seek greater regulation and control of firearms. One place to start--and many are working toward this measure--is to require those who buy and sell at gun shows to abide by the same rules as those who buy and sell in federally licensed stores. As it is now, anyone may sell a handgun privately in a face-to-face exchange without any kind of check at all and without incurring any liability.

We have a long way to go to curb gun violence in this country, no question. But because this problem cannot now be effectively addressed through strict regulation of gun sales, I think the broad solutions lie in working to alleviate the social conditions that too often lead to violent crime. Most gun violence stems more from enduring cultural troubles (poverty, drug addiction, lack of access to health care, and so on) than purely from the easy availability of firearms. If drugs were legalized and treatment provided, and if the huge sums of money we have thrown away in Iraq (for example) were invested instead in public education and in our social infrastructure, in time the incidence of violent crime in America would plummet.

But in the meantime I recommend that we push for the licensing of gun owners just as we license drivers.  This seems the only practical option with a chance of curbing the worst, random gun violence.  The NRA and other groups will fight such measures, but really, for now, licensing is the remotely workable control that's left for us to institute. Jared Loughner, the Arizona shooter, could never have gotten a gun owner's license. And if Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter (who lied on his ATF form 4473) had been required to present a license, he could not have purchased the semi-autos he used to kill 32 students. Licensed owners will have passed written and practical tests, just like drivers, that serve to establish their sanity and their capability in the safe handling, storage, and maintenance of firearms.


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