
doone replied to doone's discussion Ugly Pictures of Animals in the group Animal | Vegetable | Mineral
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Matttammar commented on Robert Joseph Jagiello's blog post From What Sources Do You Derive Strength and Consolation As you Face the Abyss?
Michel posted a videoWe are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.
The purpose of this group is to discuss morality from all points of view: biological, evolutionary, philosophical. Specific moral questions are encouraged: if you have a moral question for us atheists, feel free to post it here.
Location: #philosophy
Members: 90
Latest Activity: on Wednesday
We atheists are pretty tired of hearing that without religion, there would be no morality. It is offensive to us atheists, since this implies we cannot possibly be moral, or if we are in fact, moral, it is because we were raised in a culture in which morality was initially acquired, and still perpetuated, by religion.
While it is indeed possible that some people may need religion in order to be moral, this is a scary thought: their morality has not been reasoned or felt in their gut, it was "ordered" from above.
Human beings have had moral laws and codes for thousands and thousands of years before religion was ever invented, at least in an organized form. Human beings around the globe, from many religious backgrounds, have pretty much the same basic set of rules, starting with the Golden Rule. Why? Because our moral sense comes from the evolution of our brains and the need to live as a social species, avoiding conflict and increasing cooperation. Our moral sense is based on our emotions: it feels good to help others, and it feels bad to harm others.
The scientific study of human nature has naturally lead to the scientific study of human morality. A good start if you're new to this fascinating and important subject is The New Science of Morality, from Edge.org.
Useful links or articles:
The Moral Instinct- great long article in the NYT by Steven Pinker
The communication of emotions and the possibility of empathy in animals, by Stephanie Preston and Frans de Waal (book chapter)
Preston_deWaal2002chapter.pdf
The Normative Insignificance of Neuroscience- Scholarly article by Harvard philosopher Selim Berker (hat tip to Julia Galef) who argues that we can never derive normative implications from neural facts about how we reach moral decisions. Opposite point of view to Peter Singer and Joshua Greene. Not sure I agree completely but it's good to challenge ourselves with opposing views in any field.
berker_norminsignifneuro_Final.pdf
Moral psychology: The depths of disgust
Is there wisdom to be found in repugnance? Or is disgust 'the nastiest of all emotions', offering nothing but support to prejudice? Dan Jones looks at the repellent side of human nature.
Howandwheredoesmoraljudgmentwork.pdf
Recent evidence suggests that moral judgment is more a matter of emotion and affective intuition than deliberate reasoning. Psychology and cognitive neuroscience studies point to the importance of affect, although reasoning can play a restricted but significant role in moral judgment. A preliminary account of the functional neuroanatomy of moral judgment is presented, according to which many brain areas make important contributions to moral judgment although none is devoted specifically to it.
We will be adding recurrent threads that people keep adding new material to, for reference or because the subject is a tidbit that does not warrant its own separate discussion:
The Moral Treasure Chest
Moral Dilemmas- this is a thread for moral dilemmas (a part of applied ethics), feel free to post your favorite moral dilemma, real of made up, and what you would do and why (coming up soon).
Online tests: These are academic tests designed to probe our moral sense, moral cognition, and what drives our moral decisions and judgments. They are fun, they will tell you a lot about yourself, and you'll be helping researchers add to their current data.
YourMorals.org (Jonathan Haidt's group and collaborators).
The Moral Sense Test (Joshua Greene-Harvard University)
Started by Dallas the Phallus. Last reply by Onyango Makagutu Apr 30. 3 Replies 0 Likes
What Isn’t for Sale?Market thinking so permeates our lives that we barely notice it anymore. A leading philosopher sums up the hidden costs of a price-tag society.THERE ARE SOME THINGS money can’t buy—but these days, not many. Almost everything is…Continue
Tags: ethics, free-market capitalism, morals, economy, capitalism
Started by Dallas the Phallus Apr 21. 0 Replies 0 Likes
Chances are, you're a liar. Maybe not a big liar — but a liar nonetheless. That's the finding of Dan Ariely, a professor of psychology and behavioral economics at Duke University. He's run experiments with some 30,000 people and found that very few…Continue
Tags: ethics, morality, psychology, Ariely, honesty
Started by Dallas the Phallus Apr 20. 0 Replies 0 Likes
The empathy machine Sherlock was right – new research shows that seeing through another's eyes takes a detached mind not just a warm heartWhat’s the first thing you think of when you hear the name Sherlock Holmes? It might be a deerstalker, a pipe…Continue
Tags: autism, morality, feeling, Sherlock Holmes, creativity
Started by Adriana. Last reply by Dallas the Phallus Apr 9. 87 Replies 0 Likes
This discussion is for all the great links, pdfs, videos, or general…Continue
Tags: reports, ethics, studies, videos, philosophy
Started by Adriana. Last reply by Adriana Apr 7. 5 Replies 0 Likes
I've been thinking hard about how I would describe my moral position, from a philosophical point of view. Since I do not agree with moral relativism or with moral absolutism (perhaps better called "moral realism"), I think I found a position that…Continue
Tags: philosophy, humanism, moral, quasi-realism, Simon Blackburn
Started by Adriana. Last reply by Neal Mar 12. 2 Replies 0 Likes
Here's a great blog post in Scientific American: "How Your Moral Decisions are Shaped by a Bad Mood"…Continue
Tags: cognition, emotions, decisions, psychology, morality
Started by doone. Last reply by Adriana Jan 25. 10 Replies 0 Likes
Babies help unlock the origins of morality Watch the Segment »Can infants tell right from wrong? And if so, how would you know? Come to Yale's baby lab. Lesley Stahl reports.Web Extras…Continue
Started by doone. Last reply by doone Nov 18, 2012. 22 Replies 1 Like
Want the shortest path to the good life? Try cynicism…Continue
Comment

Comment by doone on April 22, 2012 at 10:46am Tauriq Moosa in Big Think:
A society that forces its citizens to be shaped into the mould of whatever prevailing opinion thinks true or good, by virtue only and through the use of majority viewpoints, is as dangerous as any oppressive regime. Just because the weapon is prevailing opinion doesn’t mean it is any less oppressive of those who happen to dissent. Instead of a powerful individual throttling the freedom of the many, it is now the many who, by virtue of number, become powerful enough to throttle the freedom of the individual.
The reason we ought to be on our guard, then, rests in the incredible power tyranny fueled by prevailing opinion has. It rivals any of the great tyrants and tyrannies of history and today: it’s a tyranny that has built into it a watchdog alertness to individual activities, requiring no cameras or bugged houses, only paternalistic quidnuncs with idle hands, assertive self-righteousness and morally sensitive personalities; it’s a communication device with a thousand tongues, willingly able to turn into a vengeful arm of enforcement through coercion and ostracism; it sustains itself in, for example, media outlets that are twisted to take its form, as these are businesses who do not want to lose their clients and so will feed what most of them, being the majority, want to hear and see.
More here.
Posted by Abbas Raza at 08:04 AM | Permalink

Comment by doone on April 16, 2012 at 9:00pm Tim Parks grabs a beer with philosopher Riccardo Manzotti, who believes that consciousness is a process:
His favorite example is the rainbow. For the rainbow experience to happen we need sunshine, raindrops, and a spectator. It is not that the sun and the raindrops cease to exist if there is no one there to see them. Manzotti is not a Bishop Berkeley. But unless someone is present at a particular point no colored arch can appear. The rainbow is hence a process requiring various elements, one of which happens to be an instrument of sense perception. It doesn’t exist whole and separate in the world nor does it exist as an acquired image in the head separated from what is perceived (the view held by the "internalists" who account for the majority of neuroscientists); rather, consciousness is spread between sunlight, raindrops, and visual cortex, creating a unique, transitory new whole, the rainbow experience. Or again: the viewer doesn’t see the world; he is part of a world process.
(Street art by Pablo S. Herrero and David de la Mano in Montevideo, Uruguay, viaColossal)

Comment by Adriana on April 15, 2012 at 5:14pm Yes, it is very likely that compassion and empathy, and thus ultimately, morality, originated from maternal love. Altruism over predatory instinct....hmmm...not so much, I think.

Comment by doone on April 14, 2012 at 9:58pm
by Zoë Pollock
On a panel with Roger Ebert, Michael Fink, the man behind the CGI dinosaurs in Terence Malick's The Tree of Life, confirmed what we all believed:
The premise of the four-shot scene was to depict the birth of consciousness (what some have called the "birth of compassion") -- the first moment in which a living creature made a conscious decision to choose what Michael described as "right from wrong, good from evil." Or, perhaps, a form of altruism over predatory instinct. Here's the relevant passage from a 2007 draft of Malick's screenplay:
Reptiles emerge from the amphibians, and dinosaurs in turn from the reptiles. Among the dinosaurs we discover the first signs of maternal love, as the creatures learn to care for each other. Is not love, too, a work of the creation? What should we have been without it? How had things been then? Silent as a shadow, consciousness has slipped into the world.

Comment by doone on April 12, 2012 at 8:40pm It is often said by scientists that our understanding of the neural basis of empathy is in its infancy, the suggestion being that it is only a matter of time before problems will be solved, as if the difficulties facing the research field are merely technical. But the implication of my paper is that the issues confronting empathy theorists are as much theoretical or, say, philosophical, as they are technical or scientific. Adam Smith’s name is today routinely evoked in introductory remarks on the nature of empathy. But how many people realize that for Smith empathy (or sympathy) was not a natural phenomenon or an automatic process of resonance with the feelings of another? Rather, according to him sympathy was conditioned by an inherent theatricality that, by making persons into actors and spectators who distance themselves from each other and even from themselves, forestalls the possibility (the dream) of complete sympathetic merger or identification.43 Freud expressed the same difficulty, indeed impossibility, in his own way when he made psychical ambivalence—the constitutive impossibility of separating Eros and Thanatos, love and hate, immersion and distance—central to his understanding of the sympathetic-identificatory phenomenon. According to Freud, rivalry with the other is as inherent in human nature as is love, and indeed is inseparable from love: the taming of these emotions is the necessary but endless task of civilization.44 For such thinkers, then, our knowledge of other minds cannot be explained by an appeal to a simple mechanism of mutual resonance or mutual attunement of the sort I have analyzed here. A further implication of my paper is that the problem of emotional empathy can only be rendered the more intractable if investigators persist in adopting the theoretical assumptions and experimental methods associated with the Basic Emotions View and the mirror neuron hypothesis.
more from Ruth Leys at nonsite here.
Posted by Morgan Meis at 08:56 AM | Permalink

Comment by doone on April 10, 2012 at 12:46pm Psychologist Roy Baumeister reflects on his groundbreaking 1998 research on self-control and shares how it became the dominant theory despite its unpopular Freudian roots.
Hans Villarica in The Atlantic:
In the first part of the trial, Baumeister kept the 67 study participants in a room that smelled of freshly baked chocolate cookies and then teased them further by showing them the actual treats alongside other chocolate-flavored confections. While some did get to indulge their sweet tooth, the subjects in the experimental condition, whose resolves were being tested, were asked to eat radishes instead. And they weren't happy about it. As the scientists noted in their eventual Journal of Personality and Social Psychology paper (PDF), many of the radish-eaters "exhibit[ed] clear interest in the chocolates, to the point of looking longingly at the chocolate display and in a few cases even picking up the cookies to sniff at them."
After the food bait-and-switch, Baumeister's team gave the participants a second, supposedly unrelated exercise, a persistence-testing puzzle. The effect of the manipulation was immediate and undeniable. Those who ate radishes made far fewer attempts and devoted less than half the time solving the puzzle compared to the chocolate-eating participants and a control group that only joined this latter phase of the study. In other words, those who had to resist the sweets and force themselves to eat pungent vegetables could no longer find the will to fully engage in another torturous task. They were already too tired.
In the psychology world, the key finding of this seemingly silly study was a breakthrough: self-control is a general strength that's used across different sorts of tasks -- and it could be depleted. This proved that self-regulation is not a skill to be mastered or a rote function that can be performed with little consequence. It's like using a muscle: After exercising it, it loses its strength, gets fatigued, and becomes ineffectual, at least in the short-term. Perhaps more importantly, this research would go on to serve as the foundation for at least 1,282 other studies involving everything from consumer to criminal behavior.
More here.
Posted by Abbas Raza at 06:06 AM | Permalink
Comment by Dallas the Phallus on April 7, 2012 at 10:30pm 
Comment by Michel on April 7, 2012 at 9:56pm Politics is how large-scale human affairs are conducted. I'm with Neal, I feel I need to understand how it works to earn the right to complain =)

Comment by Neal on April 7, 2012 at 9:21pm I'm not agreeing with that one. =(
With out a discussion of ideologies you forfeit having knowledgeable input when utilizing a basic democratic apparatus; voting.
something like that.
Comment by Dallas the Phallus on April 7, 2012 at 7:46pm Oh, that's not my comment. I just pasted that from another site. But I agree, talking politics gets tedious. A truer line has never been said: Politics makes us stupid.
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