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Permalink Reply by doone on April 19, 2012 at 7:19am

Harkening back to when I was paying attention to God, praying to God or whatever was only a help to push me in a direction I wanted to go anyway.  

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Permalink Reply by Adriana on April 19, 2012 at 7:31am

I respect some religious people as well, even if I don't respect the belief.  But I tend to respect all people, as long as they are good people or reasonably good people. Sometimes people are religious because they fear death, or because they want to believe they will see their dear departed again. I do not criticize them, but i do not admire them either. I empathize with them, it's a very human feeling. We all find comfort as best as we can when confronted with tragedy or sadness.

I also respect religious people who have not had the opportunities or the environment I had, to learn about the world. Nobody chooses their lot in life, even though some of us are lucky or strong enough to be able to influence it. I never respect the willfully ignorant, though. If their path doesn't cross mine, I'm happier, because the willfully ignorant almost always try to impose their ideas on others, and unfortunately, sometimes in a mean or violent way. 

I think many generous people who do so in the context of religiosity were generous to begin with, I agree with you, Marianne. It is easy to tell a genuinely generous person from someone who gives to charity because their religious told them to. These are usually stingier, and there is no joy in their giving. We are incredibly good at distinguishing phony feelings, us humans.

The people I admire the most are those with an internal motivation to do good. When atheists do good, I think their motivations is more often than not internal. We do it for goodness's sake. We do it because we feel happy when we do it. We do it because we are human and we empathize with the plight of other human beings, or other sentient beings.

I sometimes wonder how much is taught and how much is inborn. I've seen little kids, even babies, who were always generous, and are now generous adults, and vice versa.

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Permalink Reply by Victor Rubicon on April 19, 2012 at 8:18am

"I sometimes wonder how much is taught and how much is inborn."

Me, too. But, I haven't been searching for white papers on this subject.

I will confess that I don't really want to know. Maybe it is mostly inborn---but I won't have as much as I think I should have!

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Permalink Reply by Victor Rubicon on April 19, 2012 at 8:08am

The feeling of conflict if we totally dismiss as absurd and useless a religious person who, despite his or her belief in magic, does good works, and does not purposely disrespect our non-theist or non-religious point of view: Oh, yes, this is a dilemma that I have experienced.

I often work with religious persons including priests and rabbis, and I admire their passion or flame as Marianne called it. I feel that I can trust these people to behave well, and to be reliable in their commitments, which is much more than I feel for average people.

I can accept to work with and even admire these religious people in projects that have nothing to do with religion or the promotion of belief in god. For example: feed homeless persons, distribute clothes to those who need them, counsel alcoholics and substance abusers about rehabilitation and treatment.

I am drawn to all people who seek a spiritual connection to others, I have many common goals and beliefs with them. But belief in a ghost in the sky who can make it rain or snow is not one of these things.

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Permalink Reply by Neal on April 19, 2012 at 1:30pm

I've stated before that it's the institution I despise, not the people.

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Permalink Reply by Marianne on April 21, 2012 at 11:33pm

I just would like to play down something I have stated and it's in relation with different shades of grey..

Not all religious people are worthy of my acceptance in my opinion.  Some are very ignorant and I think they should use their grey matter a bit more;  others, often belonging to the clercgy but maybe not, can do awful things in the name of religion to other people..

I just thought that I made that other side of the coin known as well.

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