Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Neal on June 5, 2012 at 12:21pm

I think the same Michel. Death lets him off the hook, easy way out, life imprisonment is punishment for life.

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Permalink Reply by Ali on June 5, 2012 at 10:44pm

did you read about Luka Magnotta? 

here:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/06/05/19838456.html

Now, people makes "Reaction" video to him Killing that man (video)  ... some of them makes jokes Comments about it ...Funny? no is not Funny they all are fucked up .

This world needs discipline.

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Permalink Reply by Michel on June 6, 2012 at 4:24pm

Yes I did, it happened in my hometown =(

People on the internet can make jokes on things like this precisely because they see it on the web. It's not really real if you don't seriously think about what you're looking at. And there's the desensitization issue Keely mentioned.

These people (the web spectators) are not necessarily hopelessly fucked-up - seriously challenged, judgmentally speaking, but certainly not as fucked up as the nutcase killer.

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Permalink Reply by Ali on June 8, 2012 at 2:20pm

it was real to me and to the police .if any of my friends make jokes about it I will not be a "friend" to him/her anymore. its like joking about Holocaust not funny and yes anyone who does is fucked up - to me - ...

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Permalink Reply by Neal on June 6, 2012 at 10:11am

Costs more to execute then to imprison. You bring up good points, not everyone is guilty and the even bigger point of a person's mental state. Should we execute sickness?

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Permalink Reply by Daryl on June 6, 2012 at 3:42pm

If sickness is dangerous should we let live in society? Just because you put them in prison or a nuthouse it doesn't mean they wouldn't ever find a way to hurt anybody. And then even if they don't we still have to pay for them.

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Permalink Reply by Neal on June 7, 2012 at 5:00am

Again, because of our legal system, it is more costly to execute than to imprison for life. I'm more into curing the sickness, though killing is always easier.

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Permalink Reply by Daryl on June 7, 2012 at 9:34am

First of all, my point in that post was that innocent people are more valuable than money.

Second, your making my point about government. The legal system needs cleaned out because I'm telling you, a pellet of tungsten is a lot cheaper than staffing a prison, keeping up a prison, feeding a prisoner for ten years or more, and simply the chance of him escaping and killing someone else. I guarantee it didn't cost that guy more to kill a whole family than it would for us to kill him, and I doubt it cost much for the rag heads to take him out and lop his head off.

Curing? Let's say you could alter the mind of the criminal so he was this perfect functioning member of society, which the research would definitely be expensive and while it's new the government's definitely going to have some reason why this is more expensive than purging him while they're laundering money for themselves.

1. The person he is caused this, so you'd create a whole new person by destroying the nasty mindset he was born with or developed. So it doesn't help anybody.

2. You'll disperse experimental minds into the population. Once they begin to reproduce you'll never get rid of them.

3. If they're that advanced and willing going to go that far why not just make him a drone that worships the government as a god? They're in control of this right? Or is the whole world an honest hippie fantasy where nobody wants power over one another?

I don't blame anyone for wishful thinking. I do it a lot. I wish for the utopia where that guy didn't rape and kill that woman and her family. Someday maybe science will be able to create it, but I doubt our race will be recognizable by then, nor will it care about utopia.

If you want to be closer to that utopia though, he has to be removed.

Here is the zinger. Despite all of our arguing, there's no way she or her family meant anything to you or me, and we are arguing about what should be done to this man. They are a lot closer to her than we ever will be and can be the only ones to make a call on how he is punished and while I agree with the final result, it isn't and shouldn't be either of our calls.

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Permalink Reply by Michel on June 7, 2012 at 10:31am

Your point 1: If the criminal is cured, you help as much as if you had killed him. And you have saved a life.

Point 2: Everyone's mind is "experimental." There's no other mind-building way. Child-rearing and teaching are no exact sciences.

Point 3: The government is in control of what? 

You write:

there's no way she or her family meant anything to you or me

I'm sorry but you don't know that. Perhaps I or someone else here has had experiences somehow similar to that kind of event. A friend or relative who has been murdered or who has murdered someone. Or maybe just a brush with mental illness or personal death. Lots of things can possibly add meaning to an issue like that. So perhaps there's more than wishful thinking or longing for utopia behind this killing-aversion some of us have developed and now care to discuss.

And thankfully, as fucked up as it is, the criminal justice system does not yet rely on victims sentiments for application of justice and sentencing. I am personally very glad it is not the call of the parties involved.

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Permalink Reply by Neal on June 7, 2012 at 2:00pm

I don't understand your thoughts.

1. First off, the answer to all your points could be one word, Norway. Their system successfully rehabilitates 80 percent of those who were incarcerated. I don't know why you say helping people is a waste of time; "so it doesn't help anyone" comment is false.

2. Experimental minds? If you wish to say that someone who has committed a crime, and the problem that caused the crime is fixed, that it is an experimental mind? How do you deal with the millions of experimental minds loose in the world today? All those people suffering from depression, taking medications, going to counseling; there all over the fucking place, run! No difference.

3. Same as number 2. We are not brainwashing, we overcome social challenges. We help.

As for the rest, it is not a utopian thought when it is already successfully happening in the some countries. People who put a price on life are sad motherfuckers, how much is a life worth. If it comes down to what's easier, then we'll always chose killing. Stupid fucking killing. 

This bullshit about rights not being my call is a pretty lame idea. We kill off innocents to make society's animals happy, and eye for eye bullshit that just leaves a world of blind men.

You should read up on what is possible in the treatment of criminals. Again, Norway doesn't have to do any of this crap being promoted here and it is the safest country to live in on the damn earth. 

There are many people who turn their heads away from religion and the notion of free will. The only reason we kill others is because we believe they had the freedom not to make the choice they made, yet determinism plays a large part on who and what we are. If you grew up in a safe stable environment the odds are great that you will grow up to be fairly stable If you grew up in a violent household in a crime ridden area, you're probably not going to be quite as stable, or at least it would take a lot of work; not brainwashing, reasoning.

It is my fucking call to make. I an not a murder, if you wish to be one, go for it. I dislike my taxes being used to end someone's life, simple as that. I despise a judicial system that is run for profit and needs those prisoners to make that money. 71 out of every 100,000 norwegians are incarcerated, 743 out of every 100,000 americans are locked up. Why is that? Our humans are more violent than other humans? Are we different fucking species? No, it's because of all the jackasses in this country that want to lock people up for crimes that aren't even crimes. Hey a jaywalker! Five years for you buddy. And while you're locked up you can be an indentured slaved working for AT&T; whoopee!

Maybe we should just lock up all the dumbfucks in the world.

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Permalink Reply by Neal on June 7, 2012 at 4:40pm

I understand the topic, and disagree with the answers.

So because Norway seems to have a different system in place, we should stick with our shit system of putting teenagers in jail for minor crimes so they can become sociopaths, or at least learn how to be a better criminal; then we can kill them. 

I think nobody here understands what I'm talking about.

Killing is immoral, simple as that.

I will never agree that death is the only answer, I have more strength than that.

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Permalink Reply by Neal on June 7, 2012 at 4:56pm

I also understand that there will be the very, very few who will never see freedom again.

But if you're trying to tell me that every person who's killed someone is unable to be rehabilitated you're wrong. 

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