Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?
Fraud is a broad term that refers to a variety of offenses involving dishonesty or "fraudulent acts". In essence, fraud is the intentional deception of a person or entity by another made for monetary or personal gain. Fraud offenses always include some sort of false statement, misrepresentation, or deceitful conduct.
Most governments and countries have fraud laws of some kinds. They generally interfere with religious fraudsters only when physical harm is being done to our gullible citizens yet ignore the monetary theft that the fraudsters fleece from their victims. Prosperity ministries are the most flagrant of these immoral religions, but all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question.
Our governments are quite good at acting against obvious fraudsters yet seem reluctant to protect our more gullible citizens when it comes down to religions.
Religions, to me, get a free pass to lie and steal all they can from victims, especially the older citizens even when governments know about the fraud.
I begin to see the inaction of governments on these religious fraudsters as a dereliction of duty.
I agree that literalism and reading myths as reality is the root of most problems from religions. That and our own tribal natures which is what causes us to create gangs and tribes/religions.
Atheists are recognizing this more and more and that is why they are starting to open atheist churches. To ignore the tribal need of fellowship would mean that they might lose some of their children to our immoral mainstream religions.
DL, Is an atheist Church Democracy?
It might be as close as you can get.
Not that I can see, although they seems democratic enough.
I do not see them as political though.
Gretta Vosper seems to be yelling and "Ministering" to people.
She may be able to get a cult.
The title of the video Atheist Minister is B/S.
It seems according to the video that she is stuck in theology without understanding religion.
I prefer to discuss issue and not people.
Gretta Vosper is a minister.
I thought Atheists are interested in sciences and look at what may be considered religious texts such as the Bible, Qoran, Torah, Hindu, Confusionins and other texts as mythologogy rather than ultimate truths.
Gretta Vosper seems stuck in the gravitational hole of religion rather than seeing all religious texts as mythology.
All religious texts are myths.
Unfortunately some see them as ultimate truths.
It's okay to have no respect for someone unable to get out of the black hole of god theology.
It appears Gretta Vosper isn't an Atheist.
That's okay. She shouldn't pretend and the presentation shouldn't present her as an atheist.
What is the issue?
With Gretta it's something about defining God.
I worked with a military Chaplin's assistant.
I asked hin if he believed if there was only one god. He said 'yes'
I asked if when there was a battle when they prayed for 'god ' to help in the battle why would 'god' pick sides.'
Afterall there is only one god I said. To which he ran off and said "leave me alone- you're crazy."
An imaginary god doesn't pick sides.
You are all damed for killing each other.
By shouting "Leave me alone -you're crazy" just meant he knew you were right and he had no comeback. Good one Chris.
Apparently I'm going to have to write off line then post as the online edit routine doesn't work.
The chaplains assistant and I were great friend.s We hung out at each others houses on weekends.
There was another guy - John. Many called him “John the Baptist. He was a pastor who counseled kids and teenagers. He knew I didn’t have the same belief system he had yet would talk with me about some of the kids he counseled to get my feedback. We respected each other.
The first Thanksgiving at work I jumped up to fill my plate. The person organizing the event told me to wait so Gary could say what she called ‘grace.’ For Gary grace was a prayer to ‘Our Lowered Jesus Christ.’
The following year prior to Thanksgiving I wrote an anonymous email the to the Commander asking him to write a memo stating that sectarian prayers aren’t appropriate. Not that mandatory dribble about god would have been much better. The commander ignored my email. When Gary got up to demand group participation in his New Hope Dominist Jesus prayer I left.
The following spring there was a build your own sandwich potluck. Gary was in front of me in line. He sneezed snottily in his hand, wiped the snot off on his pants then proceeded to dig into tomatoes and other accompaniments for his sandwich. It was disgusting. That was the last time I ate communal meals with the group.
Many people transferred because of Gary. There were many christian domionists there. A lot of people transferred because of not only Gary and the New Hope Christian domionists but also because of other cultural diseases in the workplace environment. . Xenophobia, religious bigotry and a general atmosphere of backstabbing and infighting was the common there. The Commander set the bar low. People who could step over it left.
From the time I got there to the time I left I saw the skills of the workers decrease while the infighting increased.
You should have seen what that commander said while working on the Hurricane Katrina Project. He and that organization exemplifies the Peter Principal rule except in the case there incompetence was promoted while others left or attempted to maintain thier job if they could. Jealousy in the incompetent managerial system bread incompetence. It seemed to me that the higher ups didn’t want anyone around them who would threaten their position so the dumber the better.
Regarding Vospers ‘theology’ : With, or without god? She doesn’t sound like an atheist to me. What’s the point of preaching god while pretending to be an atheist. I don’t think she gets it. Her internal struggle to define 'God" is nonsense to atheists other than in perhaps poetic terms.
A minister who understands a loss of faith is Dan Barker and his Freedom From Religion Foundation
Vosper isn't making a new path. Dan Barker among others made a road for her and other ministers.
"What is the issue?"
The issues was atheists and others forming atheist churches and that they are doing it because they recognize that churches are mostly there to appease our tribal/fellowship instincts.