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We are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.
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Nonreligious Conservatives
They say there aren't many of them out their but 'they' happen to be Fox News and Christians. I look at it this way though. The majority of the world are sheep and will willingly fall into a mainstream. If we're all freethinkers here then I think we agree that a lot of people in the world are that way. But, if you're a Atheist Democrat, ask yourself if you've fallen into a mainstream like religion in a different form. I consider government to be another sort of God. Think about it...
Government promises the perfect world where all who play the ideological game will be happy...
...just like religion.
Many will not question it, just as the religious won't question their god.
They too have a Bible. It's called the Media. You've probably been reading more of it than the Christians have of their own book.
There are also SINS! Working for more money. Being Rich. Making more than the guy next to you. Making jobs that aren't government jobs. Selling products that can be used irresponsibly. Not wearing seat belts. Not wearing helmets. Exercising the Second Amendment. Offending a minority group. Bringing up the 10th Amendment at all to tell them that many of the things they've been doing are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
It is hope. It is another opium for the masses. It is the reason communist regimes are Atheist. Because the regime, the government, has taken God's shoes.
This is too obvious to be ignored by anyone who claims to be a freethinker.
So is government the answer?
Tags: Conservative, Freethinker, Government, Ideology, Liberal, Progressive
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Adriana on -
I concur, I almost choked on my iced coffee. Plus I'm tempted to say that Libertarianism ands free market Fundamentalism are indeed religions, since their tenets are never questioned and even if plenty of evidence contradicts it, their adherents still cling to them, without revision.
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Permalink Reply by Neal on -
You could easily throw austerity measures as a conservative religion as well, one that works likes christianity; not at all.
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Permalink Reply by Neal on
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"You're confusing conservative with Christian."
Not at all. Christianity is what conservatism is today. Actions speak louder than words, and when you look at every GOP governed state you see bill after bill that promotes christian immorality. Going to a conservative political rally is like going to church and listening to some preacher ramble. It's fairly apparent to anyone who listens what conservatism is about these days.
Defining the constitution as "sacred" is pretty scary to this atheist, since sacred is used to define holy nonsense more so than respect.
Also do you think rich people don't work?
This is the second time you've mentioned the rich and someone's attitude towards them. I can't find anyone arguing this point here, is this something you would like to debate? Being rich has nothing to do with work, otherwise everyone would be rich. Rich has to do with skills acquiring cash like carpentry has to do with building skills, nothing more. I don't worship the rich because they have that talent.
Since the wealthy pay less than a percentage in taxes than most, where did you come up with the 50% tax rate? All I expect is that if I'm paying a certain percentage of my salary that they pay the same. Someone paying 25% on 30 grand a year is having a much harder time living than someone paying 25% on 30 million a year.
According to the WSJ:
By examining court documents and regulatory filings, The Wall Street Journal was able to determine the pay of executives at 21 of the 100 largest companies that recently went through bankruptcy. Together, the chief executives of those firms earned more than $350 million in salary, bonuses, stock grants and severance for the periods their companies were under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection or just afterward.
That is an atrocity. Kneel before that altar if you wish, not me. Taxes on the rich have gone down, not up. Removing the Bush tax cuts would only put rates back to what they were when Clinton was in, a time when big business flourished.
And since you keep bringing up the rich, what's your thoughts on the poor? What is wrong about a living wage?
"As for private sector vs. public sector, I like having police officers and firemen. But, the government doesn't build wealth in our nation so it cannot be a business."
This seems to be a misconception. Private industry doesn't provide roads, bridges or any type of infrastructure. No damns, no power grids; nothing. So for them to make a profit, they rely on taxpayer built transportation, yet according to conservatives, need not pay for any of it. There would be no wealth built in this country without the support of the government. Basically my taxes support the rich and I'm pretty tired of it.
But you can always count on criminals, to not follow the law. Therefore the only people with guns are criminals."
I've always wondered if conservatism relies on misinformation and ignorance. "They're going to take away are guns!" has been a constant conservative meme over the decades, and guess what; you still all have your guns. Kind of funny. Yes, I'm sorry you don't have a dozen RPG's hanging in your garage, get over it.
"Just recently Republicans were attacked over not wanting the government to pay for women's birth control."
Another falsehood. If you are talking about Ms. Fluke, that was about insurance companies covering contraceptives not the government. It is also about providing health care for women which I have no problem with. This issue is really about religion and misogyny. Every conservative controlled state is doing their best to prevent women from managing their life. I wish conservatives would stop with the small government bullshit; there is no greater intrusion by big brother than when they stick their noses in someone's bedroom.
There's not a conservative I know that would have allowed Rush to get away with calling their daughter a slut. But as long as it is someone else's daughter, it's just fine. For that conservatives will always be known as the party of me.
Basically, Socialism and Theism are two sides of the same coin.
When a conservative talks, he can't help but mention socialism; like it has anything to do with today's politics. Thanks for not letting me down.
Government regulates much of life, no doubt about it, but the comparison to god is far-fetched at best. What is the alternative to a ruling body that is elected by the people?
Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling.
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Permalink Reply by Daryl on -
“Not at all. Christianity is what conservatism is today. Actions speak louder than words, and when you look at every GOP governed state you see bill after bill that promotes christian immorality. Going to a conservative political rally is like going to church and listening to some preacher ramble. It's fairly apparent to anyone who listens what conservatism is about these days.”
Not for a Libertarian. It’s a taint on a good name. Just as socialism taints the name liberal, which, roughly means ‘of freedom’.
“Defining the constitution as "sacred" is pretty scary to this atheist, since sacred is used to define holy nonsense more so than respect.”
I only used sacred because you said they see the dollar as sacred. I’m just saying that the Constitution is the one thing that is and should be set in stone and the liberals seem gung ho at dismantling it.
“This is the second time you've mentioned the rich and someone's attitude towards them. I can't find anyone arguing this point here, is this something you would like to debate? Being rich has nothing to do with work, otherwise everyone would be rich. Rich has to do with skills acquiring cash like carpentry has to do with building skills, nothing more. I don't worship the rich because they have that talent.”
You don’t think the people responsible for places like Home Depot or Wal-Mart where you go to buy your well needed food and equipment should have more money? What about people like Bill Gates, an atheist like us, whom without we wouldn’t have a user friendly OS to discuss this with? Oughtn’t he to have more money? This is America. This is what makes us great. We have incentivized the creation of convenience stores and great products such as this OS and Ford trucks and all the greatest inventions of America because they get paid to do it. J
“Since the wealthy pay less than a percentage in taxes than most, where did you come up with the 50% tax rate? All I expect is that if I'm paying a certain percentage of my salary that they pay the same. Someone paying 25% on 30 grand a year is having a much harder time living than someone paying 25% on 30 million a year.”
The actual tax rate I found was 35% but higher than others nonetheless. Of course depending on what state you’re in it could be as high as 45%. And percentages are a fair way to do it. Changing them to attack the wealthy that make our real jobs isn’t a good thing. But a simple flat rate system would eliminate loopholes and they wouldn’t be able to legally dodge taxes like I think you pointed out at some point.
“According to the WSJ:
By examining court documents and regulatory filings, The Wall Street Journal was able to determine the pay of executives at 21 of the 100 largest companies that recently went through bankruptcy. Together, the chief executives of those firms earned more than $350 million in salary, bonuses, stock grants and severance for the periods their companies were under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection or just afterward.
That is an atrocity. Kneel before that altar if you wish, not me. Taxes on the rich have gone down, not up. Removing the Bush tax cuts would only put rates back to what they were when Clinton was in, a time when big business flourished.”
I see that as a good thing, but Obama on the other hand, the socialist, is wanting to push them back up again. You see, big business can flourish with taxes. It only need raise the price of it’s goods.
“And since you keep bringing up the rich, what's your thoughts on the poor? What is wrong about a living wage?”
Considering these poor people seem to have plasma screen TVs bigger than anything I’ve ever imagine, I don’t think they’re too bad off. Especially since their taxes are 10% and they probably don’t even pay that. People that make close to 40 grand a year can barely afford that.
“This seems to be a misconception. Private industry doesn't provide roads, bridges or any type of infrastructure. No damns, no power grids; nothing. So for them to make a profit, they rely on taxpayer built transportation, yet according to conservatives, need not pay for any of it. There would be no wealth built in this country without the support of the government. Basically my taxes support the rich and I'm pretty tired of it.”
Your taxes bail out crappy companies that the Democrats and Republicans both vote for. Plus provide welfare checks to the nonworking class.
“I've always wondered if conservatism relies on misinformation and ignorance. "They're going to take away are guns!" has been a constant conservative meme over the decades, and guess what; you still all have your guns. Kind of funny. Yes, I'm sorry you don't have a dozen RPG's hanging in your garage, get over it.”
We still have certain guns but have you ever looked up the regulations assault rifles?
“Another falsehood. If you are talking about Ms. Fluke, that was about insurance companies covering contraceptives not the government. It is also about providing health care for women which I have no problem with. This issue is really about religion and misogyny. Every conservative controlled state is doing their best to prevent women from managing their life. I wish conservatives would stop with the small government bullshit; there is no greater intrusion by big brother than when they stick their noses in someone's bedroom.”
The issue was, they wanted to require a private insurance policy from a Catholic University to pay her for birth control and this is at least trying for a government forced issue.
“There's not a conservative I know that would have allowed Rush to get away with calling their daughter a slut. But as long as it is someone else's daughter, it's just fine. For that conservatives will always be known as the party of me.”
Ms. Fluke says birth control cost $3000 throughout law school. Law school is 3 years in length. There are 365 days in the year and $1000 must be spent each year by this standard. Condoms cost about 25¢. Some places will even offer them for free. 1000/365=2.739/.25=10.95. So we can conclude that if it cost that much for birth control then she must have sex 10-11 times a day. I won’t say she’s slut, but that’s a lot of sex.
“When a conservative talks, he can't help but mention socialism; like it has anything to do with today's politics. Thanks for not letting me down.”
Isn’t a society of shared wealth what socialists are about and what liberals constantly push for. You even said Bill was a taxer of the wealthy.
“Spread the wealth.” – Barack Obama
“Government regulates much of life, no doubt about it, but the comparison to god is far-fetched at best. What is the alternative to a ruling body that is elected by the people?”
You are the alternative. I am the alternative. Every individual person is the alternative. If Religion can’t control your life then why stop there? Don’t let government control our lives. Why let men voted in by the majority tell us what to think? Especially since we’re a minority. That’s not being a freethinker. The less government interferes the better; because a man 10000 miles away cannot possibly know how best to do things where you are, or even care about you as an individual enough to try.
Really it’s another ideology. It’s a group. Why aren’t atheist conservatives a political party? Because they’re nothing and nothing doesn’t group. That is a freethinker.
“Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling.”
That’s Capitalist, because nobody’s forcing anybody to buy anything. J
But the socialists just made us all buy healthcare. JJ
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Permalink Reply by Neal on
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"Considering these poor people seem to have plasma screen TVs bigger than anything I’ve ever imagine, I don’t think they’re too bad off. Especially since their taxes are 10% and they probably don’t even pay that. People that make close to 40 grand a year can barely afford that."
That's a falsehood. I know people that are struggling, and none have a big plasma screen. They do have the cell phones to keep connected with their children, but those are hand me downs. (I have given my old ones to them). That's really a ridiculous statement, provide the proof please.
You don’t think the people responsible for places like Home Depot or Wal-Mart where you go to buy your well needed food and equipment should have more money?
Again, the only one bringing this up is you. So you must want a discussion on this point. I think that they should earn more money, just not all the money. Unchecked capitalism has destroyed the middle class. When you have a CEO making 450 times the amount of money that someone makes building the product. That's an atrocity. A real business model where a strong middle class exists has CEO's that make around 20 times the amount of money that a worker does. Right now wages have dropped for everyone but the rich, they're not hurting at all.
Quit blowing smoke up my ass dammit. =)
We still have certain guns but have you ever looked up the regulations assault rifles?
What the fuck do you need with an assault rifle? Just what we need, instead of some deranged fuck killing a dozen or so people, he can kill hundreds, whoopee!
The issue was, they wanted to require a private insurance policy from a Catholic University to pay her for birth control and this is at least trying for a government forced issue.
No, the issue was about the religious forcing their ideology on the rest of us. Catholics are against contraceptives; too fucking bad. Obama did the right thing, an action that most atheists would support.
Ms. Fluke says birth control cost $3000 throughout law school. Law school is 3 years in length.
Get your mind out of the gutter my friend. Contraceptive are used to treat all the following: Cramps, heavy or irregular bleeding, acne, too much hair growth, ovarian cyst growth, etc.
Some people for unknown reasons only see sex, when in reality there are many issues. My insurance company would pay for any viagra that I may want, what's the difference? Without insurance it would cost 20 bucks a pill. A months worth 600, a years worth, well, you get the idea.
“Spread the wealth.” – Barack Obama
I agree totally. You look at this as socialism, I look at it as a plan to create well paying jobs.
I don't agree with your conclusions. =(
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Permalink Reply by Michel on -
I was simply stating that the media has a degree of power over the lesser intelligent individual.
The Media is not an entity. The times have changed, no more Paper/Radio/TV exclusive conglomerates. Those are currently breaking down, and now people, even those you call 'less intelligent' - makes you a rather condescending fellow BTW - have a choice of opinion to consider. Perhaps you should tweak down a bit your conspiration dial. It's like saying the internet has an agenda...
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Permalink Reply by Daryl on
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I never said the internet has an agenda. News networks have an agenda. The internet is that thing people try to put down every time I mention it as the best thing that has ever happened to mankind.
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Permalink Reply by doone on -
The internet is great, but there are more than just the 2nd and 10th amendments. As far a big government goes, we have two parties: one party wants to have a bigger government to control and the other wants to have a bigger government to help more people. We need a balance.
Amendments 1, 4,5,6,7,8 and 9 are also important.
# Amendments Proposal date Enactment date Full text 1st Protects the freedom of religion, speech, and the press, as well as the right to assemble and petition the government September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 2nd Protects an individual's right to bear arms September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 3rd Prohibits the forced quartering of soldiers out of war time September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 4th Prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and sets out requirements for search warrants based on probable cause September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 5th Sets out rules for indictment by grand jury and eminent domain, protects the right to due process, and prohibits self-incrimination and double jeopardy September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 6th Protects the right to a fair and speedy public trial by jury, including the rights to be notified of the accusations, to confront the accuser, to obtain witnesses and to retain counsel September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 7th Provides for the right to trial by jury in certain civil cases, according to common law September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 8th Prohibits excessive fines and excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 9th Protects rights not enumerated in the constitution. September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text 10th Limits the powers of the federal government to those delegated to it by the Constitution
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Permalink Reply by Daryl on
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Both want control. I don't know which you're saying wants to help people because they both claim to want to help people and at the lower levels many of them believe that they are, can, and will. At the top though, I guarantee someone knows exactly how things work and is in it for power.
#2 is violated in many areas without guns and places that heavily regulate firearms(Besides RPGs.)
#4-7 were just violated by both Republicans and Democrats. Apparently it's called the "Patriot" Law. Of course here in Indiana they're allowed to just stop us and search us anyway.
#10 is violated by numerous Federal Administrative agencies and Obamacare.
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Permalink Reply by Michel on
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I never said you said the internet had an agenda. I quoted what you said.
But I wanted to qualify your generalizations. The internet can not have an agenda nor can "The Media". Websites, bloggers, news networks, and radio personalities, all do have distinct agendas. Not "The Media" - which as I mentioned, does not exist as an entity.
So, what specific media instance did you have in mind?
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Permalink Reply by Daryl on
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Fox is an example of Christian bias. Ron Paul was against the Jihad in the Middle East, he wanted to leave birth control to the states, and end the war on drugs by making it a medical condition instead of a crime. Every time we turned around it was Romney this, Romney that. Ron is unelectable. Ron Paul came onto debates and they hardly gave him a chance to speak.
The Liberal media will do stupid things like say Tea Party Racists carry guns, but censor out the African Americans walking with them.
It's all a game to promote their ideology.
It's an endless cycle of mudslinging and shepherding a gullible public like sheep.
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