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We are a worldwide social network of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists.

1918, 11/11 11:00

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/poems/john-mccrae-in-flanders-fields.htm

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Poppy remembrance & Welfare Fund Raising.

Some may not know, or care to know the history. 

I have found than many people I know don't understand the U.S. Flag code.

An interesting thing I just learned is 

  • A church pennant may be flown above the American Flag if a church service is done by naval chaplains at sea for personnel of the Navy. After the service is over, the American Flag must again be placed in the prominent position.

Navy- Church Pennants (U.S)

Considering that what is a church pennant?

[Navy Church Pennant]

The U.S. Flag Code provides that "No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy."

According to NTP-13(B), "Flags, Pennants and Customs," the U.S. Navy interprets "at sea" to mean "aboard a ship of the navy." The church pennant is displayed immediately above the ensign wherever the ensign is displayed--at the gaff when under way or at the flagstaff when not under way. It may also be flown from a fixed pole-mast during services ashore, but not superior to the national ensign.

The U.S. Navy church pennant is a white pennant with a rounded tip having a hoist to fly ratio of about 1:3. Near the hoist is a dark blue Latin cross oriented sideways, i.e. with the head at the hoist and the long lower member toward the fly.

There is also a similar Jewish worship pennant, which is flown according to the same rules as the church pennant, which was approved by the Secretary of the Navy in 1975. It is white, of similar proportions and shape to the church pennant, with the tablets of Moses topped by a Magen David, also oriented sideways.

Since there is now a Muslim chaplain in the Navy and the crescent of Islam has been added to the cross and tablets on the COA of the Navy Chaplain Corps, we should expect to see a Muslim worship pennant added at some point in the future, presumably white with a blue crescent.

Joe McMillan, 4 September 1999

DISPLAYING THE FLAG WITH OTHER FLAGS

The American Flag may be displayed with other flags as long as its display follows the rules specified by the Flag Code. These rules were set to make sure the American Flag is in a position of prominence over other flags. The flag represents the government of the United States, and on American soil, the government is the highest authority. The American flag is even displayed above church flags, except in rare instances.

The Rules:

  • When displayed with other flags, the size of the American Flag should be larger than the other flags or relatively equal to the size of the largest flag. Other flags should not overshadow the American Flag in any way.
  • The American Flag should be flown higher than lesser flags. If the flags are displayed on the same level, the American Flag should be flown to the (flag's own) right of all other flags. The right is a position of prominence.
  • If the flags of other nations are displayed with the American Flag, they should be of equal size and at equal heights on separate staffs at a time of peace. The American Flag should be displayed to the (flag's own) right but not higher than other national flags.
  • In a group of state, local and/or society flags, the American Flag should be flown highest and in the center.
  • The American Flag should be hoisted first and lowered last, when flown with other flags on adjacent staffs.
  • When the American Flag is displayed against a wall with another flag, it should be on the (flag's own) right with its staff in front of the other flag.
  • Another nation's flag shouldn't be displayed on the same halyard as the American Flag.
  • If a state, local or society flags are flown on the same halyard with the American Flag, the American Flag should be at the top.
  • If the American Flag is carried in a procession with other flags, it should be to its own right or in the center of a line of flags.

 

Exceptions to the Rules:

  • In any nation the national flag must be placed in a place of prominence. The flag code only applies to flags flown on American soil.
  • In foreign waters or to salute a foreign country, the U.S. Navy may fly the country's national flag on the masthead of the ship. This is not a violation of the flag code because the code only applies to civilians (not the Navy), and also because the stern and gaff of a ship are more prominent positions to fly a flag.
  • A church pennant may be flown above the American Flag if a church service is done by naval chaplains at sea for personnel of the Navy. After the service is over, the American Flag must again be placed in the prominent position.
  • The United Nations' headquarters may fly the flags of all 188 member nations in alphabetical order. Although it is technically located within the United States (banks of the East River in Manhattan), the headquarters is owned by all the members of the United Nations, so it is not considered to be American soil.

 

References

U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7

The Care and Display of the American Flag by the Editors of SharpMan 2004.  

Navy historians know more about this than I.

Dropping to raise signal flags (historically)  rather than surrender to religious flags.

tongue in cheek. 

Curious is Sallah Times for the five daily prayers going to be hoisted five time a day on navy Vessiles?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_times

Salat times refers to times when Muslims perform prayers (salat). The term is primarily used for the five daily prayers plus the Friday prayer. According to Muslim beliefs, the salat times were taught by Allah to Muhammad.

Prayer times are standard for Muslims in the world, especially the fard prayer times. They depend on the condition of the Sun and geography. There are varying opinions regarding the exact salat times, the schools of Islamic thought differing in minor details. All schools agree that any given prayer cannot be performed before its stipulated time.

The five daily prayers are obligatory (fard) and they are performed at times determined essentially by the position of the Sun in the sky. Hence, salat times vary at different locations on the Earth.

...

Picking belly button lint and thinking religion isn't appropriate in the Navy, or any or other Military service - yet know being out to sea or other forms of military service may be 'scary."

I suppose with religious equality a Buddhist flag would be in order such that it would always be above the U.S. Flag.

I think get rid of them all, unless there is a burial at sea.

During my two years at sea (Sept 1950 to July 1952) aboard a destroyer there was not even one religious service. Flag etiquette may be important at Navy bases ashore because they may have chapels like the one here at the Vets Home.

I understand (after reading) that raising a flag to come to church service is only done on a ship.

It's an interesting subject.  I brought it up because a friend asked about it. 

Do many people in America wear the Poppy during armistice week each year.

Most people in the UK wear one.

Yes, Many do.

In the States there are lodges such as The Foreign Legion/VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars), and Elks that commerate WWI and all who served in the military.  

I'm thinking about joining the Foreign Legion - though I wasn't comissioned or enlisted I am qualified to join as what they call a 'Son.'

how fascinating, i feel like the stereotypical ethnocentric "merikan, because i did not even realize that "our" red poppies were used to commemorate those who served besides just the americans.  I did not even know this was also a symbol for other nations involved in WWI ?

  Ah ha, so it goes all around the countries who all served together in WW1?  i thought it was just over here.   Now i know i need to learn some more.  I always just thought the red poppy was because May is when the poppies are in bloom here, at the same time as Memorial Day.

but, there is more to it than that.  ah HA.

They chosed the poppy because after all the bombardment in no man's land the poppy's would seem to grow almost overnight and its then that they became a symbol of the soldiers dead comrades 

Maybe you didn't know that Veterans day here in the U.S. is on November 11 which is when the Armistice of WW1 was signed in 1918. 

 Of course not.  People in the U.S. think Thanksgiving is about the myth of Pilgrims and fucking the Native Indigenous people.

That isn't why Thanksgiving was made a Holiday.

Thanksgiving was made a Holiday in attempt to heal the woulds of families that fought against each other during the American Civil war.

Is that taught in American schools?

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